Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

[katorik]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

It will be very interesting what the Ombudsman's response is.
If you read my previous posts on this subject I had the same problem with BMW finance
I eventually settled paying them just under half the amount of the original claim and I also got the £250 they charged me for collection back.
I'm not sure what to say if the Ombudsman decision is not favourable
It needs somebody who has the spare cash to take it to court and try and get a test case on the books.
If the court finds in favour of the finance companies it may cost more in legal fees etc than the amount you could finally settle on with Jaguar finance
I hope this helps and look forward to the next instalment
Cheers
Andy

Would legal fees come in to the equation though as it would be under £10k and therefore legal costs are not recoverable. If defended myself with some 'help' from more knowledgeable people on the forums what would it ultimately cost.

I don't think FGA would ever take it to court as their legal fees would not be recovered so I am more worried that thy would just leave it hanging there.

[curious1]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Just thought I would update - after many letters and arguing my point - threat of passing my file to collection agency BMW /mini finance eventually dropped the excess mileage charges. I think you just have to fight it and they give in .

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Yep another one for Andy and me, they do not want these to go to court.

[MsBrush]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Hi everyone. This is my first post, and I want to just thank everyone for the advice and guidance from these forums while I went through the VT process to hand back my Renault Clio.

VT went smoothly, and got confirmation from RCI finance that the car was in top condition upon return and that no charge for damages etc are payable. However, they are looking to charge me £1,142.16 in liability for excess mileage. It was over the contractual agreement, but like many others, the original contract mileage was kept lower by the salemen at the time of purchase. I drive 20k miles per year, and the limit on the agreement was 15k over a 4 year agreement. When the car went back it has 55,000 miles on the clock and I was 2 years 8 months into the agreement, so technically over by around 9,000 miles. I intend to dispute this, of course, but don't want to get involved in a long battle. The letter only arrived from RCI yesterday, so have a bit of time to respond.

My question is this - what is the best starting point for my argument that this is not what the VT clause in CCAT s99 and S100 say?

Thank you in advance.

[katorik]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I finally, after 19 months, have a final decision from the Ombudsman.

quote - 'it is clear to me that by exceeding the excess mileage allowance, he is considered to have subjected the car to more than fair wear and tear for the price he paid and is liable to pay the extra charge regardless of whether he has voluntary terminated the agreement or not.
I appreciate that he interprets the contract differently and says that FCA Automotive is breaching the Consumer Credit Act 1974. However, matters of enforceability are better suited to a court. Overall, I think it is fair and reasonable that he is responsible for paying the charge in the event of voluntary termination'

Great - they could have save a year of this messing around if they had just commented that they were unable to determine whether this was an enforceable point or not!

What now?

[katorik]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I finally, after 19 months, have a final decision from the Ombudsman.

quote - 'it is clear to me that by exceeding the excess mileage allowance, he is considered to have subjected the car to more than fair wear and tear for the price he paid and is liable to pay the extra charge regardless of whether he has voluntary terminated the agreement or not.
I appreciate that he interprets the contract differently and says that FCA Automotive is breaching the Consumer Credit Act 1974. However, matters of enforceability are better suited to a court. Overall, I think it is fair and reasonable that he is responsible for paying the charge in the event of voluntary termination'

Great - they could have save a year of this messing around if they had just commented that they were unable to determine whether this was an enforceable point or not!

What now?

OK, time has passed and therefore I have not accepted the Ombudsman's decision - any idea what happens next?

[travellinggirl]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Hi there,

I too have been stung by mileage charges (mine was capped at 500 per year!) and am looking to dispute this as only part of what my car company have screwed me over on. is anyone able to point me in the direction of a letter template I could use to dispute this? I have also written to the financial ombudsman because I was not given the opportunity to take my contract away and look at it, but was encouraged to sign it there and then or 'miss out' on the 'deal'. I originally went into the garage just to book a service for my previous car and was sold a newer, same model car as he told me that I would not have to pay my service that way and this was limited because it was the end of the month. At the time I told my dealer I was leaving the country in 18 months and he advised me that I could hand back the car after 18 months and incur no additional fees. He also advised my partner of this when I brought him along because I wanted support. The garage refuse to comment on what he did or did not say and he no longer works there. So my 'free service' has cost me £950 in termination fees and £440 in mileage charges!

[WAL]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Is their a template letter quoting sections of CCA when disputing claim for excess mileage when car returned early

[R0b]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Not sure whether there is a template letter available but quote

s.100 (1)

Where a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement is terminated under section 99 the debtor shall be liable, unless the agreement provides for a smaller payment, or does not provide for any payment, to pay to the creditor the amount (if any) by which one-half of the total price exceeds the aggregate of the sums paid and the sums due in respect of the total price immediately before the termination.

total price means

the total sum payable by the debtor under a hire-purchase agreement or a conditional sale agreement, including any sum payable on the exercise of an option to purchase, but excluding any sum payable as a penalty or as compensation or damages for a breach of the agreement

As you have voluntarily terminated the agreement under a statutory right, you are therefore not in breach of the Agreement. Provided the car was in reasonable condition then any additional charges made i.e. excessive mileage will be deemed a penalty and not enforceable.

I came across a couple County Court judgments which sided with this agreement - Rover v Siddon although that was a case of where the debtor was in breach of the agreement and the judge deemed the additional charges a penalty and if it were appealed would most likely have reversed the decision. There is another case which I can't remember off the top of my head but will post when I dig it out.

Rather than relying on a template, why not string something together and we can take a look for you?

[WAL]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Not sure whether there is a template letter available but quote

s.100 (1)


total price means


As you have voluntarily terminated the agreement under a statutory right, you are therefore not in breach of the Agreement. Provided the car was in reasonable condition then any additional charges made i.e. excessive mileage will be deemed a penalty and not enforceable.

I came across a couple County Court judgments which sided with this agreement - Rover v Siddon although that was a case of where the debtor was in breach of the agreement and the judge deemed the additional charges a penalty and if it were appealed would most likely have reversed the decision. There is another case which I can't remember off the top of my head but will post when I dig it out.

Rather than relying on a template, why not string something together and we can take a look for you?

ROB
Peugeot Finance have handed their claim over to RMS RECEIVABLES whom I notice have featured in other correspondence as well.
I had paid 50% of all outstanding amounts and complied with act when returning the vehicle in September of this year.-10 months before my contract expired.They originally claimed £510 for Damage charges .This has been reduced to £75 following my demand for an independent inspection which is impossible as the car has been sold in auction by Peugeot Finance.
They are also claiming £1299.86 excess mileage on a pro rata basis of 21892 miles i.e an excess of 25997 miles.I have told RMS that I am disputing their bill and was intending to write and say that I was going to refer their claim to the FOA (under S100 of the Act?)
Whether the car was ever fit for purpose is another matter all together.The following work was carried out under warranty from time of purchase in May 2013
I.New wishbone in front suspension
2.new engine
3.New strut top
4.New catalytic convertor
Your help is much appreciated
WAL
.

[judgemental24]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Rob, quick question and i have not read the thread so appolgise first if in error

Excess milage penalty will only apply in lease or personal contract hire, not the bog standard HP or Conditional sale agreement under the CCA 1974

Or am i barking up the wrong tree?

[R0b]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

1. Did you take any photographic evidence of the car prior to handing it back?
2. Have you paid exactly 50% or more? if more, how many months more?
3. when you voluntarily terminated did they confirm in writing that the agreement has now ended?
4. I don't understand the excess mileage part, over the period of your agreement was the maximum mileage 21892 before they started charging? what was the pence per mile rate? Are you saying you went over this mileage by 25997?
5. Have they given a breakdown of the damages they are claiming and specifically what it was for?

@judgemental24, not sure about leases/PCH - I'm only offering information in so far as a hire agreement/conditional sale and anything I've gathered in prep for any claim from an issue I currently have with Santander.

[WAL]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

1.No photographic evidence but fact that claim reduced to £75 from £510 speaks volumes .Car had gone straight to auction after being collected so they could not facilitate an independent inspection.
£75 was identified as scratched mirror unit and scratched wheel.
2.Exactly 50%paid.No arrears.
3.Was told that VT flag will show on my credit file once I had confirmed that my wish to instigate a VT .
4.Excess mileage calculated on a prorate basis of 3 years contract mileage of 30000 miles so 27 months equals 21892.Actual mileage when car collected was 47889 so they have calculated excess as 25997 x .05p=£1299.86.This is what I am disputing under CCA.

[R0b]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Well I forgot to ask the age of the car but you could slot it in somewhere if it is an old car and advise wear and tear if you reasonably think it could be deemed that. See below a quick short sample letter below

--------------------

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing further to your letter dated [ ].

Please note that liability in relation to the alleged outstanding balance for excess mileage and excessive damage to the vehicle is denied.

I request that you supply me with proof of all invoices paid by Peugeot in relation to any excessive damage to the vehicle. The vehicle was maintained in a reasonable condition throughout the period of the agreement and therefore such damage charges you are claiming would amount to fair wear and tear; the vehicle does not need to be returned to you in any better condition other than a reasonable one. As you will no doubt be aware, additional repairs made to the vehicle (if any) does not guarantee the price sought as the vehicle was placed at auction. Furthermore, the fact that you have significantly reduced the charges for damage to the vehicle from £510 to £75, makes me question whether or not this is a charge you are seeking to recover due to my voluntary termination and not excessive damage to the vehicle, in which case this will be deemed a penalty and not enforceable.

Notwithstanding the above, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I have a statutory right to voluntarily terminate the agreement provided that I have paid at least one half of the total amount payable. My liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act.

Please confirm by return that this matter is now closed.

Yours faithfully,

[WAL]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Well I forgot to ask the age of the car but you could slot it in somewhere if it is an old car and advise wear and tear if you reasonably think it could be deemed that. See below a quick short sample letter below

--------------------

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing further to your letter dated [ ].

Please note that liability in relation to the alleged outstanding balance for excess mileage and excessive damage to the vehicle is denied.

I request that you supply me with proof of all invoices paid by Peugeot in relation to any excessive damage to the car. The car was maintained in a reasonable condition throughout the period of the agreement and therefore such damage charges you are claiming would amount to fair wear and tear; the car does not need to be returned to you in any better condition other than a reasonable one. As you will no doubt be aware, additional repairs made to the car (if any) does not guarantee the price sought as the car was placed at auction. Furthermore, the fact that you have significantly reduced the charges for damage to the car from £510 to £75, makes me question whether or not this is a charge you are seeking to recover due to my voluntary termination and not excessive damage to the vehicle, in which case this will be deemed a penalty and not enforceable.

Notwithstanding the above, under the Consumer Credit Act 1994, I have a statutory right to voluntarily terminate the agreement provided that I have paid at least one half of the total amount payable. My liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is prohibited by the Act.

Please confirm by return that this matter is now closed.

Yours faithfully,

Dear Jon
Thank you for this.Will send with very little changes.See no need to refer to age as they will be aware of tis from initial contract (new car) in May 2013.All your help very much appreciated.You have helped clarify very murky waters.Will let you know what response I get.WAL