Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

My two options were £250 collection or take it to Bristol. I live in Lancashire
I was prepared to take it to the supplying dealer in Rochdale but they said no

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

My two options were £250 collection or take it to Bristol. I live in Lancashire
I was prepared to take it to the supplying dealer in Rochdale but they said no

No the third option was to charge storage until they arranged a convenient collection. No court would expect you to pay or do this.
Frequent occurrence on here, they get away with whatever they are allowed to, sooner or later the FCA will crack down on this but until then.

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

My two options were £250 collection or take it to Bristol. I live in Lancashire
I was prepared to take it to the supplying dealer in Rochdale but they said no

That is unreasonable IMO. :beagle:I'd have said it's available for collection at x address, I'm posting the V5 off to register it in your name (yes, I have done that before!) and so any issues now become your responsibility. If you want it, you know where it is.

That may sound unreasonable, but it's how you have to play the game sometimes to get the end result. The once I sent the V5 off the dealer had a fit, as of course the vehicle immediately shows another registered keeper.

Sorry Andy - crossed post!

[katorik]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

everytime I speak to their legal department they state in the conversation they are allowed to request the mileage as their agreement includes the term 'pro-rata'. It is still my belief they are applying this to installments accrued and therefore are stating that the pro-rata mileage accrued prior to VT and is therefore due. Whilst I completely disagree it seems this is what they are relying on.

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

DELETED! Brainstorm in progress!

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Hi everyone any news from the ombudsman on any of these excess mileage claims
i need to pen my reply to my finance company next week so may be asking you lot for some help with the wording although our posts over the last week have given me some great points to reply to the finance companies letter
hope we can have some info from the ombudsman before I do my letter as my next step if they don't back down will be to refer mine to the ombudsman

[curious1]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Just wondering if there what the outcome was for these invoiced for excess mileage on VT cars ? can't seemto find link anywhere else - would appreciate knowing as I am in same situation and received excess mileage invoice after VT ing my car with mini/BMW finance - many thanks

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Hi Folks
after many e mails with ALD automotive who did the finance for my BMW I ended up paying half of the original invoice amount they sent me
Firstly they had to credit the £250 +vat they charged me for collecting the vehicle from my home address as I mentioned the consumer credit act States you must be able to take the vehicle to a drop off point that is reasonably close to where you live. I live in Lancashire and was told I had to drop it off in Bristol!!!!
as soon as I mentioned this they refunded it
i then decided to just offer them half the invoice value and they accepted it without any delays.
i did see a solicitor who specialises in the CCA and she basically said if it went to court I would probably end up having to pay as the wording in the CCA states you have to pay any liabilities that have accrued before termination.
she reckoned the excess mileage is covered by this wording.
i really do think that this is still a very grey area but until someone has the spare cash to take it to court we won't get a clearer picture on wether we should pay or not.
all I can say is buy an Audi on pcp I sent my A6 back in September with approx 40k excess miles on it the car was in cracking condition and they just collected it from my house without charge and it went straight th the auction .
i haven't had any excess mileage invoice and didn't with my previous Audi A4 which had 50k excess miles on it
all I can say is VOORSPRUNGDORKTECHNIK
not sure if anybody ever got a ruling from the ombudsman either on thissubject
cheers
and merry christmas

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I think you'd get differing replies depending on which solicitor you went to. We've seen cases go both ways, and the right thing is what's right for you. Most hold out and get certain charges removed, some get all removed. You need to be very confident of your ground indeed to go and fight it in court though, and personally I don't believe it's worth the hassle. If you can get to a figure with which you're comfortable, then whether that be the whole amount asked for, nothing, or somewhere in between you've still saved yourself a small fortune doing the VT.

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I agree with you I had a original invoice for over two grand and ended up paying £900 which was still a lot more than I wanted to but I didn't want it to drag on any longer without any definate case history on this issue
Obviuosly Audi take a different view on this than BMW
I do hope someone takes it to court and wins though because BMW sales men are still telling customers they can VT and don't have to pay anything
Cheers

[curious1]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I too was advised by Mini/BMW staff to VT and have nothing more to pay (had to terminate as split from partner I was paying for it - can't afford two cars) Never heard about VT until they mentioned it. On their advise I wrote and VT'd but a have just received an invoice from Mini Logistic for excess milage over £600 and £0.00 to pay for vehicle which was immaculate. Yes it says on agreement about ex mileage but also says right at end of the agreement - Termination: your rights clearly stating once you paid half the total and taken reasonable care you will have nothing more to pay ?! I've written today after reading this and other forums so will wait and see what happens.

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

The two of us who tend to help most in this area of the site are both of the opinion that you should not have to pay anything over the 50% figure. However, as it has not yet been to court to our knowledge, it is very much up to the ability of the individual to argue their case based on what is actually stated in the CCA s.100.

Do contractual terms trump statute legislation? We'd say not, others may say they do. That is effectively what it boils down to.

[katorik]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Hmm received a repose from the FCA yesterday about this, firmly on the fense it seems.

My question

I wonder if the FCA could help clarify the legal position regarding the above.

Many dealers/ creditor include an access mileage term in there conditional sale HP agreement, this is particularly prevalent in many PCP agreements.

Some of these terms are quite low I have seen some mention 6000 which is some amount below the generally accepted usage by most motoring authorities.

On Voluntary termination under section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act the remaining liability post termination is calculated along with the requirements of section 100, (subsection (2) mentions (“reasonable care").

On the face of it the customer protection depends on this criteria (reasonable care) being external to the contract, the fact that this can be stated by the creditor via a term seems to limit that protection.
Contracting out of a provision for protection of the lender is forbidden of course(section 173).

We are unaware of any judicial ruling on this matter, and was given to understand that each case brought before the court would turn on its own evidence. However there has been a resent response form the FOS on the matter which came to our attention. See attached.

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated for future reference.

Many Thanks

Thier response

"As you may be aware, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) regulate consumer credit firms in the UK and ensures these firms follow the rules and guidelines we set. However, we do not interpret the law and suggest that you may wish to seek legal advice with regard to any legal position.

Though I have not been able to resolve your issue, I have explained the current situation."

FCA seems to be as woolly as the OFT was, I had hoped for better.

After well over a year I am at the stage of a final response from the Ombudsman on this. Can someone explain what the purpose of the Ombudsman is because from what I am seeing their view is they will come up with a 'Fair' solution rather than one that looks at the legal aspects.

In summary on my issue they are avoiding a decision in my opinion by coming to a decision that the amount claimed for the mileage should be reduced by half, the adverse entry on my credit file be removed and that I be allowed to pay for this in two instalments.

At this stage it looks like I accept half or leave it and wait for FGA to take me to court whilst the entry on my credit rating remains.

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

After well over a year I am at the stage of a final response from the Ombudsman on this. Can someone explain what the purpose of the Ombudsman is because from what I am seeing their view is they will come up with a 'Fair' solution rather than one that looks at the legal aspects.

In summary on my issue they are avoiding a decision in my opinion by coming to a decision that the amount claimed for the mileage should be reduced by half, the adverse entry on my credit file be removed and that I be allowed to pay for this in two instalments.

At this stage it looks like I accept half or leave it and wait for FGA to take me to court whilst the entry on my credit rating remains.

It just goes to show that CPCs are not legislated for, they pretend to be conditional sales agreements under the CCA but they are not, I see nothing wrong with someone agreeing to a millage charge on an agreement, just not an agreement regulated under the CCA

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

It will be very interesting what the Ombudsman's response is.
If you read my previous posts on this subject I had the same problem with BMW finance
I eventually settled paying them just under half the amount of the original claim and I also got the £250 they charged me for collection back.
I'm not sure what to say if the Ombudsman decision is not favourable
It needs somebody who has the spare cash to take it to court and try and get a test case on the books.
If the court finds in favour of the finance companies it may cost more in legal fees etc than the amount you could finally settle on with Jaguar finance
I hope this helps and look forward to the next instalment
Cheers
Andy