Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I am sure it is my fault but is seem to be unable to get a response for some reason. Yes the VT clause should have absolutely nothing to do with the millage on the vehicle it is to do with "reasonable care" not the millage.
What I m trying to find out is what they have put in your agreement regarding the millage, ie how many miles have they put.

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

The excess mileage is 26k over the agreed mileage which was over a period of 36 months so we are approx 9 k a year over the agreed which was 8 k per year which was put very low by the BMW salesman to get the price down per month

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

To make this as clear as possible my agreement was for 48 months @ 8k per year mileage we actually did 59k over 36 months which equates to 18 k per year as the car had a starting mileage of 5k they pro rated the excess mileage for the 36 months hope that's clearer

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

right 8k per year this is another argument regarding reasonable usage, this could also be considered an unfair term as average millage is considered to be between 12 and 14 k per year by moist motoring organisation.

It foes not matter what the salesman or the dealer says the statute says" reasonable care" nothing else.

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Would it be possible to just post up a redacted copy of the agreement, especially the T&C's regarding VT and the excess mileage charges? We can see exactly what you're reading then which would make life a lot easier.

It is, of course, entirely up to you if you want to go to Stephensons over this, but LB has a pretty good record with VT's once we get all the information needed. The option is always there in a few days time if you want to go that route, though I'd disagree that statute states you are absolved of all liabilities in a VT - I'm not a solicitor though.

[webb1e]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Very interesting thread and to add some more data points, I am talking to MB about a VT at the moment and the first thing they said (on the phone) was that pro rata mileage could be claimed under the VT clause although this is not a big deal for me as I am close to the contracted mileage.

In terms of the contract, it has a prominent box (1 of 3, the others being missing payments and repossession) right above the signatures that states:
TERMINATION: YOUR RIGHTS
You have a right to end this agreement. To do so, you should write to the person you make payments to. We will then be entitled to the return of the goods and to half the total amount payable under this agreement, that is £xxx. If you have already paid at least this amount plus any overdue instalments and have taken reasonable care of the goods, you will not have to pay any more.

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Indeed my contract had exactly the same box above where I signed this was the box the salesman pointed out to me when I signed the document

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Very interesting thread and to add some more data points, I am talking to MB about a VT at the moment and the first thing they said (on the phone) was that pro rata mileage could be claimed under the VT clause although this is not a big deal for me as I am close to the contracted mileage.

In terms of the contract, it has a prominent box (1 of 3, the others being missing payments and repossession) right above the signatures that states:
TERMINATION: YOUR RIGHTS
You have a right to end this agreement. To do so, you should write to the person you make payments to. We will then be entitled to the return of the goods and to half the total amount payable under this agreement, that is £xxx. If you have already paid at least this amount plus any overdue instalments and have taken reasonable care of the goods, you will not have to pay any more.

It is a very good point also.
If they are saying that the contractual millage charge applies because it was "on the contract you singed" well so was this and this says you do not have to pay anything else.

incidentally that particular wording is required under the default and termination notice regulations, and is a statutory requirement, not only on the agreement but also on default notices.

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

As I say if it were me I would not pay a bean, however I cannot advise others to do the same, unless they feel up for it of course.

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I would not pay anything either. I've VT'd one car of my own and did not pay any extra for doing so. I've worked through the process with numerous other people not one of whom has paid anything extra. As Andy states, you may end up with a bit of a battle, but I know where I believe the law lies.

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

As I think you know Wombats I have always advised people not to entertain these charges at all, but in view of the reply form the ombudsman (although it was only an adjudicator and not the actual ombudsman himself), and the fact that the FCA do not want to commit themselves one way or the other i am reluctant to be so gung-ho with others . However I have all the arguments to hand and am more than eager to help anyone who wishes to contest these charges.

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

This runs through the argument quite nicely:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...stion%3F&mid=0

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I think I am going to refer my case to the ombudsman anyway because I'm certainly not going to pay the invoice until I've exhausted every avenue to get this invoice cancelled
will keep you all informed

[katorik]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Mine is with the Ombudsman now and being looked at.
My view is they are trying this on the basis that they have the words 'pro-rata' on the mileage clause and therefore trying to enforce it under the 'overdue instalments' part of the clause.

I don't see how mileage can be enforced as at the end of the contract whatever the excess mileage amount comes to is then reducing the guaranteed minimum value of the PCP anyway. The full 100% of the agreement can never change and therefore neither can the 50% level.

So the question is at what point does excess mileage become an overdue instalment?

[Wombats]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I disagree. I think what they are trying to do is this.

The CCA is very clear, as are your agreements, that under a VT nothing further needs repaying assuming reasonable condition.

Also in your agreement is an excess mileage charge which is clearly stated. I believe this should only be applied, or come into play at the end of your agreement.

I think they are trying to apply the excess mileage charge to the VT which is incorrect. That is a contractual term which ONLY comes into play at the end of the agreement.

The pro rata issue is purely to do with this excess mileage charge. They have to work out an agreed annual mileage pro rata is it is aggregated over the full term of the agreement. So, if you've agreed say 10000 miles per year they would expect you to have done 30000 at the end of a 36 month agreement.

If you VT after two years, working pro rata they assume you should only have done 20000 miles. If you've done 26000 miles, they're applying the excess mileage charge to that 6000 miles (incorrectly IMO).

A contractual term can come into play alongside statute at the end of the agreement, but should not be allowed to override statute during an agreement, ie, when doing a VT.