Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

on the assumption that they come back with the same answer as JON0910 then what is the next stage - I assume they will continue to pursue it through their debt collection agency and then I resist and it proceeds to court?

The problem is that there has been no judicial decision on this, now we have the situation where it seems like the FOS have come down on the side of the trader/creditor, so whereas before, when these went to lower court it was a case of about 50/50 depending on the knowledgeability and the whim of the court, they can now say, well the FOS say its OK. It makes the whole prospect of challenging these charges just a bit to risky for me to say yes challenge them. Which in the past is what I have been saying.

Personally, if it were me(and i have been in this situation) i would always challenge these charges because I think that they are not legally applicable , the act forbids them. Unfortunately this is not to say that a court cannot find for the creditor given the present situation.

I think generally the advice should be that these charges should always be disputed, a degree of horse trading is probably the safest option, dealers and creditors do not want this to go all the way to the high court or the court of appeal for obvious reasons, so they will usually come to an accommodation and reduce the amount claimed when pushed.

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

By the way, as you say when FGA say about legal confirmation, they really do not, the opinion of an adjudicator is not legal confirmation, ask anyone who has had a PPI compliant upheld by an adjudicator only later to be reversed when it gets passed up to the ombudsman.

However it may carry weight if presented to a judge who does not fully understand the legislation.

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Hmm received a repose from the FCA yesterday about this, firmly on the fense it seems.

My question

I wonder if the FCA could help clarify the legal position regarding the above.

Many dealers/ creditor include an access mileage term in there conditional sale HP agreement, this is particularly prevalent in many PCP agreements.

Some of these terms are quite low I have seen some mention 6000 which is some amount below the generally accepted usage by most motoring authorities.

On Voluntary termination under section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act the remaining liability post termination is calculated along with the requirements of section 100, (subsection (2) mentions (“reasonable care").

On the face of it the customer protection depends on this criteria (reasonable care) being external to the contract, the fact that this can be stated by the creditor via a term seems to limit that protection.
Contracting out of a provision for protection of the lender is forbidden of course(section 173).

We are unaware of any judicial ruling on this matter, and was given to understand that each case brought before the court would turn on its own evidence. However there has been a resent response form the FOS on the matter which came to our attention. See attached.

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated for future reference.

Many Thanks

Thier response

"As you may be aware, the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) regulate consumer credit firms in the UK and ensures these firms follow the rules and guidelines we set. However, we do not interpret the law and suggest that you may wish to seek legal advice with regard to any legal position.

Though I have not been able to resolve your issue, I have explained the current situation."

FCA seems to be as woolly as the OFT was, I had hoped for better.

[andreww5]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

whats the latest on this excess mileage cliam by Jaguar Finance

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I am in the same position with ALD finance over a BMW I recently VT they are claiming for the excess milage
They have offered a reduced invoice following my complaint but its still a hefty charge
Any nnews on how this claim with Jaguar finance is going
Cheers all
ps I know audi never charge excess mileage and the salesmen know this which is why they do the yearly mileage at about 8k so the deal looks good

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I am in the same position with ALD finance over a BMW I recently VT they are claiming for the excess milage
They have offered a reduced invoice following my complaint but its still a hefty charge
Any nnews on how this claim with Jaguar finance is going
Cheers all
ps I know audi never charge excess mileage and the salesmen know this which is why they do the yearly mileage at about 8k so the deal looks good

Still trying to get some feedback form the FCA, I have had the usual we don ot handle individual complaints , followed by the usual. we recommend you seek your own legal advice, but they will not commit themselves either way regarding the legal issue(nothing new there then). However the FOS adjudicator is of the opinion that the contractual term overrides the statute in this matter, I pointed out to him that if this were the case then what is the point of any statute or in fact any law at all. No comment and I was welcome to refer the m to their legal department.

So at least for now the advice I think should be that if it is not in the contract do not pay it, unless it is unreasonable wear and tear for the time you have had it, if there is a millage agreement within the contract and you have exceeded it then it is a matter for you to decide, if it were me I would still contest it if it were an unreasonable amount, because this is what the CCA says, however I feel that to advise others to this after what the Ombudsman has said would be irresponsible, the middle ground is to negotiate a better deal, I am sure that dealers are reluctant to test this in court and will bend over backwards to avoid the issue, so there is some leverage there IMO.

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Thanks for the update
Its really disappointing that the salesman who did the deal put a low mileage on the contract to keep the monthly payments within my budget when I told him I would easily exceed this he said just VT the contract with nothing to pay
This practice is still going on so something needs to be done to clarify the excess mileage clause I am going to pay for some legal advice so will keep you informed

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Thanks for the update
Its really disappointing that the salesman who did the deal put a low mileage on the contract to keep the monthly payments within my budget when I told him I would easily exceed this he said just VT the contract with nothing to pay
This practice is still going on so something needs to be done to clarify the excess mileage clause I am going to pay for some legal advice so will keep you informed

Right and this is just exactly the practice which needs to be stopped, in law the salesman's verbal contract with you is just as binding as the written one(although arguably header to prove of course).

This is why the statute is there, they cannot just contract out of the statute, could they just say, we do not have to send a default notice for instance, or regular statements of accounts or copies if requisite under the act, can they opt out of these requirements of the statute also just by saying so in a contractual term, no not at all.

National debtine agree with this and also say that these terms are unenforceable, the CCA is quite clear about VTs and what is and is not required on termination, it just needs a nice high profile test case to prove the point.

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Your right something needs to be done
i know Audi finance do not invoice for excess mileage when you vt
I have been offered a reduced charge ( about half) by the finance company so they obviously know it's not straight forward to enforce this charge.
not sure what to do at the moment I'm worried if I start to try and negotiate a further lower settlement I am admitting in writing that I agree to the charge which I dont

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

Your right something needs to be done
i know Audi finance do not invoice for excess mileage when you vt
I have been offered a reduced charge ( about half) by the finance company so they obviously know it's not straight forward to enforce this charge.
not sure what to do at the moment I'm worried if I start to try and negotiate a further lower settlement I am admitting in writing that I agree to the charge which I dont

what did the term on the agreement say ?

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

My agreement specified the standard wording regarding vt ie you can terminate when you have paid 50% of the total amount of the agreement and taken reasonable care of the goods.
there was a excess mileage clause in it but I was advised by the salesman that this does not apply when you vt because when you have paid the 50% you can terminate all your liabilities under the agreement which I have read on a couple of legal websites is correct so I'm not sure how the finance company can say I can't terminate one particular clause that's within the agreement I have terminated

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

My agreement specified the standard wording regarding vt ie you can terminate when you have paid 50% of the total amount of the agreement and taken reasonable care of the goods.
there was a excess mileage clause in it but I was advised by the salesman that this does not apply when you vt because when you have paid the 50% you can terminate all your liabilities under the agreement which I have read on a couple of legal websites is correct so I'm not sure how the finance company can say I can't terminate one particular clause that's within the agreement I have terminated

Yes I understand that , I wondered exactly what the excess millage clause says ?

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

The wording is
if you exceed your contract mileage over the term of your agreement you must pay £££ plus vat up to 10,000 miles then ££££ thereafter multiplied by the difference between the contracted mileage and the actual mileage
another clause states if the vehicle is returned prior to the end of the term the contracted mileage will be recalculated on a pro rata basis in respect to the amount of term which has elapsed etc

[Guest]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

and the actual clause containing the figure for the millage ?

[andreww5]

Re: Jon0910 Voluntary Termination & Mileage Issues

I have read an article tonight from stephensons solicitors which states as soon as you have paid 50% you can terminate all your liabilities under the contract
to me that means all your liabilities not just some
think I might speak to them tomorrow it might be worth £50to speak to someone who specialises in this field