Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

[2cojones]

I wonder if anyone can give me a bit of advice.
I bought a car which was advertised on Auto Trader from a private seller earlier this month. The advert clearly stated that the car had a "New MOT", and the seller confirmed this verbally on the phone (and again at his house) that the car definately had a new MOT. When I went to view and drive the car I decided to buy it (even though it was dark, and I was under pressure to buy “a car” to get to work the next morning) . The seller would not let me look at the vehicle documents until I had handed over payment. Strange that, and in retrospect I should have walked away then. Anyway, I handed over the money (£900 in cash – for which he gave me a written receipt). I subsequently found that there was no MOT Certificate present. The seller said that it had been lost and would forward it when he found it. After a load of excuses and lies the following week, and having checked the car's MOT status on the DirectGov website and with the garage he said had carried out the MOT test, I found out that the car did NOT have an MOT Certificate at all (it last passed in September 2012 !).
As this chap was a private seller, rather than a car dealer, I realise that I have less rights. However on the Citizens Advice Bureau website, on a page titled 'Buying a car from a private seller - what you need to know' there are two sections that suggest that I do have a case against him, these are listed below :
'The car must match it's description' - The car did not match it's description as the online Auto Trader advertisement included the words "New MOT".
'The car must be roadworthy' - The car was clearly not roadworthy as it did not have a current MOT Certificate AND whilst I commuted back from work later that week 3 of the 4 wheel nuts on the front passenger side wheel sheared off, causing serious 'wheel wobble' and vibration - this could easily have resulted in a serious accident. I have evidence of this from the AA Breakdown Recovery (they transported the car to my local garage).
I want to take this private seller to the Small Claims Court to recover the cost of obtaining an MOT on the car. The car needed substantial work to pass the test, the bill so far being around £800 all of which has been documented. Crucially I have a hard copy of the original Auto Trader advert (a good job as the seller cancelled it very quickly on the evening I bought the car – attempting to destroy the evidence ?!)

Can anyone advise me whether I would have a case in the Small Claims Court or is there a better way of recovering these costs ? I have already given him an opportunity (by text message) to refund me the money and take the car back, or give me half back and I keep the car, but he refused both options.
He is a very arrogant bloke, in (apparent) total denial as to what he’s done wrong. All he keeps saying is “the car was sold as seen”. That’s fair enough – and what I expect – but that term applies to the condition of a car not to mis-describing it.
I have been buying secondhand cars for over 25 years and have always tried to make sure I was never ripped off (and never have been). So, disappointed that I let my guard down this one time.
Any advice you are able to provide would be very much appreciated. Sorry about the mini essay …..
Thanks, Chris

[EXC]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

I would say that the small claims court is your only realistic option but a letter before action might do the trick. On the face of it you seem to have a case with the advert saying 'new MOT'.

Had you found out the car had no MOT prior to the incident with the wheel nuts?

[2cojones]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

Hi EXC,

Thanks for the post. I was hoping that someone would say that at some point as I 've only read that I would have absolutely no chance of winning in a Small Claims Court to date (only by Googleing stuff).

I had found out that no new MOT had been recorded on the DirectGov website before the incident with the wheelnuts, but on challenging the seller on this he was absolutely adamant that all the work had been done to pass an MOT, it had been throughan MOT test and passed but the garage had not uploaded the data onto the DirectGov central database. In hindsight I should have sensed he was telling a load of porkies but I wanted to give him some benefit of doubt before calling him a liar.

Regards,

Chris


"... Space guy fell from the sky, Scratched my head and wondered why, Time slide into time, Across International Dateline .... "

More Mick Jones E=mc2

[EXC]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

I would send him a letter before action. Obviously you've no obligation to follow through with issuing a claim but for the price of a stamp you may get lucky and he'll respond positively.

There are numerous guides and examples for them, here's a start http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/...ore_action.htm

[des8]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

You have nothing to lose following through Exec's advice. HOWEVER a private sale where you see a car before purchase leaves you with little rights BUT it is a criminal offence (contravenes RTA ?) to sell a car (private or trade) if it is unroadworthy and the seller does not make it clear to the purchaser that it is for scrap or spares. I haven't checked this out..... it's what I recall from dealings a couple of years ago. Might be worth checking out and quoting it to seller in your LBA

[des8]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

Here's link to relevant part of RTA:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75

[Tools]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

One question, I assume you had put the vehicle through an MOT once you found out it did not have one and before using it to commute. I agree that either making a claim in small claims court is the best option, unless your local trading standards can give you further guidance.

If you used the vehicle without MOT then I am afraid you have no claim re the wheel nuts, if you MOT`d the car yourself and then the wheel nuts sheared, your issue is with the garage that MOT`d the vehicle. However, it is possible for a wheel nut to shear at any time and would be difficult to prove negligence on the part of any garage.

[2cojones]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

Hi EXC,

I have followed your advice and sent the seller a formal letter. From past experience I doubt very much he will respond but, as you say, for the price of a stamp ...

Thank you for the link to the guides.

Regards,

Chris

[2cojones]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

Hi des8,

Thank you for your post. I mentioned that the seller had contravened the Road Traffic Act in my formal letter to him so it should at least make him think.

Thanks also for the link to the correct section of the RTA. There it is in black & white !!

Regards,

Chris

[2cojones]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

Hi Tools,

I used the car to commute for one day only (the Thursday following the Sunday I bought the car) as the seller was absolutely adamant that the car had a new MOT. He kept on about the garage not have uploaded the MOT details on the DirectGov website. So, yes I did use the car without an MOT. When the wheel bolts sheared it was then taken to my local garage by the AA where the bolts were removed/rethreaded/new bolts fitted and I asked them to put it through an MOT test due tothe fact that the seller had not offered to do anything, and I needed a car that I could use.

I'm glad that you think that I have a case in the Small Claims Court. I suppose I cannot claim also that he sold me an unroadworthy car as I used it without an MOT. I shall just claim for misrepresentation in the advertisement, statingthat it had an MOT when it did not have one.


Thank you very much for your post and advice.

Regards,

Chris

[ostell]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

I suppose I cannot claim also that he sold me an unroadworthy car as I used it without an MOT. I shall just claim for misrepresentation in the advertisement, statingthat it had an MOT when it did not have one.

Just because you used it doesn't mean it was unroadworthy. The wheel bolts sheared, probably because they were overtightened!

[des8]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

If the car was unroadworthy when you bought it,and you were not advised as such, the seller has committed a criminal offence.
Besides the problem with the wheel nuts, what else was wrong with the car?
You mentioned paying out over £800 to get it through its MOT. That is a substantial amount so what was wrong with the car, was it something else that would also make the car unroadworthy or dangerous e.g. lack of brakes, dangerously worn steering or suspension units? Will the garage that carried out the remedial work give you a written report detailing the faults?
The fact you used the vehicle doesn't alter the fact it was in a dangerous condition when sold, although a prosecution is unlikely. Prosecutions for that offence normally only follow when an accident has happened.

By all means go for him through the small claims, but IMO basing your case on misrepresentation alone is shortsighted. You saw the vehicle before buying it, you had the chance to examine it and it's your word against his about the MOT (Honest Guv, I told him that was a mistake in the advert and there was no MOT).

[wales01man]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

Trying legal action for this will become He said He said tennis Difficult one to prove or disprove words said

[Kerianner]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

Trying legal action for this will become He said He said tennis Difficult one to prove or disprove words said

Hi just wondered if you have a up date on your situation as I'm in the same boat so to speak and am unsure of what avenues to go down many thanks

[ghosthunter49]

Re: Taking a private car seller to Small Claims Court - maybe ?

I had a similar problem with buying a motor bike, the MOT was intact but as the seller lived a long way away I asked in the emails if there was any known faults with the bike I should know about and the seller said none. Within a week of riding the bike I found an intermittent fault, I had all the service history so I called the garage that maintained it and they informed me of a fault with the security system and told the previous owner the fix would cost £1000:00 or their about, I contacted the seller with the information that he had not told me the truth and it was ignored. My garage fixed it costing £500:00 thanks to an on line auction. I contacted a solicitor who asked me to send a copy of all the correspondence to him and he told me I had an excellent case. I informed the seller of this and he agreed to pay half, he paid £250:00 plus £50:00 towards the solicitor’s fee. So yes I believe you can take him to a small claims court, whether or not he pays up is another matter, then a job for the sheriffs.

I wonder if anyone can give me a bit of advice.
I bought a car which was advertised on Auto Trader from a private seller earlier this month. The advert clearly stated that the car had a "New MOT", and the seller confirmed this verbally on the phone (and again at his house) that the car definately had a new MOT. When I went to view and drive the car I decided to buy it (even though it was dark, and I was under pressure to buy “a car” to get to work the next morning) . The seller would not let me look at the vehicle documents until I had handed over payment. Strange that, and in retrospect I should have walked away then. Anyway, I handed over the money (£900 in cash – for which he gave me a written receipt). I subsequently found that there was no MOT Certificate present. The seller said that it had been lost and would forward it when he found it. After a load of excuses and lies the following week, and having checked the car's MOT status on the DirectGov website and with the garage he said had carried out the MOT test, I found out that the car did NOT have an MOT Certificate at all (it last passed in September 2012 !).
As this chap was a private seller, rather than a car dealer, I realise that I have less rights. However on the Citizens Advice Bureau website, on a page titled 'Buying a car from a private seller - what you need to know' there are two sections that suggest that I do have a case against him, these are listed below :
'The car must match it's description' - The car did not match it's description as the online Auto Trader advertisement included the words "New MOT".
'The car must be roadworthy' - The car was clearly not roadworthy as it did not have a current MOT Certificate AND whilst I commuted back from work later that week 3 of the 4 wheel nuts on the front passenger side wheel sheared off, causing serious 'wheel wobble' and vibration - this could easily have resulted in a serious accident. I have evidence of this from the AA Breakdown Recovery (they transported the car to my local garage).
I want to take this private seller to the Small Claims Court to recover the cost of obtaining an MOT on the car. The car needed substantial work to pass the test, the bill so far being around £800 all of which has been documented. Crucially I have a hard copy of the original Auto Trader advert (a good job as the seller cancelled it very quickly on the evening I bought the car – attempting to destroy the evidence ?!)

Can anyone advise me whether I would have a case in the Small Claims Court or is there a better way of recovering these costs ? I have already given him an opportunity (by text message) to refund me the money and take the car back, or give me half back and I keep the car, but he refused both options.
He is a very arrogant bloke, in (apparent) total denial as to what he’s done wrong. All he keeps saying is “the car was sold as seen”. That’s fair enough – and what I expect – but that term applies to the condition of a car not to mis-describing it.
I have been buying secondhand cars for over 25 years and have always tried to make sure I was never ripped off (and never have been). So, disappointed that I let my guard down this one time.
Any advice you are able to provide would be very much appreciated. Sorry about the mini essay …..
Thanks, Chris[/QUOTE]