Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

[becca88]

Hi there everyone,

I have just stumbled upon this site (which is fantastic by the way!).

I am in desperate need for some advice.

I own a vehicle which had been in a local garage due to a car accident. The gentleman who owned the garage has not contacted me for several months.

The gentleman informed me the vehicle would cost over £14,000 to repair and that his storage costs for the year were almost the same. I would just like to point out this was not a state of the art storage facility but a glorified car park. My vehicle was not covered or treated in any special way.

As far as I was concerned he was still storing the vehicle for me, as I have received zero correspondence from them. I was then informed that he had repaired the vehicle for £5,000.

Imagine my surprise when I walk out of my local shop when I see someone else driving my car!! I have since learned that the garage sold my vehicle without my consent. I never received any notification from the DVLA, also the vehicle was never registered as a category D write off.

I still have the log book and purchase receipt and the spare key.

I was going to go down the civil route as the DVLA and the police have informed me to do so.

i was not sure what rights I have in terms of seizing the vehicle ?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you ever so much.

[des8]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

Hi and welcome.
I get the feeling that we're not getting the whole story here, and it is difficult to understand what is going on.
What vehicle is it? make & model, year and approx value.
Was any other vehicle involved in the accident?
Are insurance companies involved? If not who declared it a Cat D write off?
What sort of garage is this...main dealer or back street? It seems odd that their estimate is 3 times the final figure.
Who informed you the final cost was £5000 if you had no communication with him?
How long did they have the vehicle for repair? How often did you chase them to complete the work?

Generally speaking the garage can keep a vehicle until the repair bill is paid (this is a lien over the goods).
They can only sell the vehicle after giving the owner notice under the Torts Interference with Goods Act 1977
Did you have a written contract with the garage, 'cos such a contract may have other terms?

Sorry, but at the moment there are too many unknowns to attempt any advice.

[becca88]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

Thank thank you ever so much for your reply.

There were no other vehicles involved and neither was my insurance company.

The car was a Mini Cooper convertible john cooper works model. I have no idea to the value but it was a 2011 model with only 7000 miles on the clock.

The £5,000
was due to the fact he used refurbished parts, he told my father he had done this without our consent.

It is not a main garage it is a little local place.

I had a valuer look at the vehicle to see if a repair was viable and they informed me that the vehicle was a category D write off.

The estimate was what he wanted us to pay should he carry out the repairs for us.

They had the vehicle for just over a year and I contacted them on a fortnightly/monthly basis.

They never spoke with me or wrote to me with their intentions of selling the vehicle.

thank you so much once again if I have forgotten anything I do apologise I'm still trying to get over the shock that someone else is driving my car

Hi and welcome.
I get the feeling that we're not getting the whole story here, and it is difficult to understand what is going on.
What vehicle is it? make & model, year and approx value.
Was any other vehicle involved in the accident?
Are insurance companies involved? If not who declared it a Cat D write off?
What sort of garage is this...main dealer or back street? It seems odd that their estimate is 3 times the final figure.
Who informed you the final cost was £5000 if you had no communication with him?
How long did they have the vehicle for repair? How often did you chase them to complete the work?

Generally speaking the garage can keep a vehicle until the repair bill is paid (this is a lien over the goods).
They can only sell the vehicle after giving the owner notice under the Torts Interference with Goods Act 1977
Did you have a written contract with the garage, 'cos such a contract may have other terms?

Sorry, but at the moment there are too many unknowns to attempt any advice.

[labman]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

I assume you have a written quotation for the original work and for the storage costs.

The storage is exhorbitant - over £250 per week to effectively have a damaged vehicle parked on his ground.

Is there a reason you are not going through your insurance company as £14000 is a lot. This one is on EBay currently:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINI-Coope...item3a85821dcc

That must have been a big accident, in which case what work was needed.

Have you had a bill for the work? You state you have had no correspondence from them, but were then informed the repairs had cost £5000. How did the garage inform you? If you were in fortnightly contact, was there ever any question or discusssion about him selling the vehicle?

Are you sure your insurance company were not involved (sorry, daft question, but just checking)?

If what you are saying is true and he has sold the car, despite you being in fortnightly contact, then it is theft and should be treated as such. To my mind, whatever the police say, this is a criminal offence.

I'll be interested to read your answers to my questions. :beagle:

[des8]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

I would strongly suggest you go (don't phone) the local police station.
Insist on getting a crime number for a possible offence under Section 3 of 1968 Theft Act.
Then write to DVLA, who (I believe) should have contacted you before issuing a new registration document, instructing them that as owner you have not authorised a change of keeper, and giving them the crime number.
Report to trading standards, the garage may have a history of this.
Eventually you may have to take action in County Court to recover the vehicle or its value.
If the vehicle remained insured whilst in garage, report to your insurers.

[becca88]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

Thank you for your reply Labman.

I do indeed. It has provided a full breakdown of costs and even told me that it could be higher and he would not advise me to repair the vehicle.

To be completely honest it was not an awful accident, so I assumed the damage would be minimal, if you were to look at the vehicle front on everything is completely fine apart from the front right hand side.

However, the vehicle's engine mount is cracked, the convertible roof has been bent, the right hand side front panel needs replacing, air bags need replacing and a few other bits so quite an extensive list of work, so I am told.

He went to my parents property and stated that he had now repaired the vehicle, to which I responded to him via letter informing him that I was contesting the storage costs, but that I would of course pay him for the repairs on the vehicle once I had confirmed with an independent mechanic the level of the repairs he had undertaken.

I did not involve my insurance company as I did not want to loose my no claims discount and I genuinely thought that the repairs would be minimal, really regretting my decision now I can assure you.

There was never any correspondence received from the garage informing me that he had any intention of selling my vehicle.

Des8 thank you ever so much for your advice. I was not sure what the police would do as I have heard quite a few people say that the police will merely say that this is a civil matter.

I feel awful for the new owner as they clearly weren't informed that the vehicle had been a write off. I was tempted to go and speak with them and let them know that they were in fact driving my vehicle, but I am not sure how wise that is considering they may think I am insane!

I am more than prepared to take the garage to court. I can't even begin to describe my anger when I saw my car yesterday! I am ready to do whatever is necessary to get my car back.

Once again, thank you all so very much for your replies and advice.

[labman]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

I do indeed. It has provided a full breakdown of costs and even told me that it could be higher and he would not advise me to repair the vehicle. OK

To be completely honest it was not an awful accident, so I assumed the damage would be minimal, if you were to look at the vehicle front on everything is completely fine apart from the front right hand side.

However, the vehicle's engine mount is cracked, the convertible roof has been bent, the right hand side front panel needs replacing, air bags need replacing and a few other bits so quite an extensive list of work, so I am told. This sounds expensive - the roof would have cost a lot!

He went to my parents property and stated that he had now repaired the vehicle, to which I responded to him via letter informing him that I was contesting the storage costs, but that I would of course pay him for the repairs on the vehicle once I had confirmed with an independent mechanic the level of the repairs he had undertaken. Excellent - storage costs were ridiculous.

I did not involve my insurance company as I did not want to loose my no claims discount and I genuinely thought that the repairs would be minimal, really regretting my decision now I can assure you. I bet you do.

There was never any correspondence received from the garage informing me that he had any intention of selling my vehicle. VERY naughty.

Des8 thank you ever so much for your advice. I was not sure what the police would do as I have heard quite a few people say that the police will merely say that this is a civil matter. The police will say anything is a civil matter if it avoids them having to do any work. You MUST go to the police station and report your car as stolen by the garage owner. It is NOT a civil matter, it is theft. The time taken to repair the vehicle is totally unreasonable as well.

I feel awful for the new owner as they clearly weren't informed that the vehicle had been a write off. It hasn't - it would only have been a write off had the insurance company been involved. It's been in an accident of which she is possibly unaware, it has not been written off. I was tempted to go and speak with them and let them know that they were in fact driving my vehicle, but I am not sure how wise that is considering they may think I am insane! Perhaps you should point this out to the police when you go and see them. The potential for a breach of the peace or for someone to lose their temper and get violent is massive. Why? Because YOUR car has been sold to her. That is not civil, it is criminal on behalf of the garage owner.

I am more than prepared to take the garage to court. I can't even begin to describe my anger when I saw my car yesterday! I am ready to do whatever is necessary to get my car back. I wouldn't entertain court. I'd leave it with the police to resolve. It will be quicker, cheaper and less stressful. The buyer of your car can take the garage owner to court if the CPS haven't already done so.

This person really should be brought to justice. If what we have been told is accurate he is a thief, you are the victim of the crime. Is there any reason why you are reluctant to go back to the police? If so, share it with us and we'll see whether or not we can help.

[des8]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

[QUOTE=labman;376300] the roof would have cost a lot! about £500 used

Agree with Labman that at this stage it is easier to get police into gear than take court action yourself.
IF he is prosecuted for theft and IF he is found guilty the courts MAY order restitution to you.

However, at the end of the day, you MAY have to take legal action yourself.

[becca88]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

Thank you both ever so much for your advice once again.

I will be ringing the police first thing in the morning. My only hesitation was that they would fob me off with some excuse leaving civil action as my only option.

I have found my log book, my original receipt and the spare keys I am
not sure if they will require any other information from me but I am sure that I can find it if they let me know.

I believe he quoted around £3,200 for the roof - I think he has been trying to swizzle me from the beginning.

I really can't thank you enough for your advice, it really is invaluable. Without your advice I would have gone down the civil route which would have cost a fortune.

All I really want is to have my car back and be in the position that I was originally, hopefully my local police force will be willing to help.

Thanks again

[CleverClogs]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

The £5,000 was due to the fact he used refurbished parts, he told my father he had done this without our consent.

As you may now have surmised, the plods are essentially ignorant and indolent bums who try to avoid work wherever possible.

Despite their abysmal "advice", the garage owner has indeed effectively stolen your motor car; his appropriation of your property occurred when he repaired it as he pleased (using refurbished and/or counterfeit parts) without your permission.

In my opinion, legal title to your motor car cannot have been lawfully transferred to the new owner - nemo dat quod non habet, as lawyers once were inclined to aver.

If you want to sue, you should sue the garage and the new "owner", jointly and severally.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

To be completely honest it was not an awful accident, so I assumed the damage would be minimal, if you were to look at the vehicle front on everything is completely fine apart from the front right hand side.

However, the vehicle's engine mount is cracked, the convertible roof has been bent, the right hand side front panel needs replacing, air bags need replacing and a few other bits so quite an extensive list of work, so I am told.

As it seems simplicity itself to shew that he is inherently dishonest, why would you believe anything that rogue might say?

He went to my parents property and stated that he had now repaired the vehicle, to which I responded to him via letter informing him that I was contesting the storage costs, but that I would of course pay him for the repairs on the vehicle once I had confirmed with an independent mechanic the level of the repairs he had undertaken.

Meaning, of course, that he'd get neither the £14,000 of grossly inflated "storage fees" nor the equally inflated price of the repairs he had done to your motor-car without your permission.

I was not sure what the police would do as I have heard quite a few people say that the police will merely say that this is a civil matter.

Translated: "Oh, go away! We can't be bothered to deal with your problem! Bring some doughnuts next time!"

[CleverClogs]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

at this stage it is easier to get police into gear than take court action yourself.

If Rebecca offered to provide her own teaspoon, couldn't she do something easier such as draining the Atlantic Ocean? :rofl:

[becca88]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

Thank you for your replies cleverclogs.

I will see how I get on with the police tomorrow if they don't fill me with confidence I will of course attempt other avenues.

I am curious to see what happens next.. Will they impound my vehicle or will I just get my car back?

Thank you so much for your advice once again.

[labman]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

I guess there's more questions to ask before that can be answered, like have you paid the bill?

I'm sure the police are used to dealing with these things.

[becca88]

Re: Hi Everyone - New Member seeking urgent advice

I was hoping they might take pity on me and just give me the car back.

I will pay him for a reasonable amount for storage and if he wants anymore money he will have to take me to court. It pains me to pay him anything because he has been so sneaky but I'm not an unfair lady

I will keep you updated, hopefully with some good news.

I really can't thank you enough for all of your advice Labman.

Enjoy the test of your weekend