Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[Amethyst]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

It is 50% of the total amount payable and includes the deposit ( or advance payment )

Insurance is the bit on the right hand side £1k total payable? via £15 a month then £442 after 37 months ?

You've been paying £300 a month which is presumably the £15 for that and the £288 for the car. So on the vehicle VT bit you could only use the £288 portion so £6912, then the £7500 advance so still well over the VT amount (by £2k) if you're 24 payments in.

I don't know why the total doesn't add up tho - the final payment of £8k odd takes it £2k over the total payable ( £25274 )

Hang fire till [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] is about as he's the man in the know - it would help if you can do the full agreement and relevant VT terms though.

When you spoke with them did you make it clear you wanted to VT and hand the car back , not just settle the agreement ?

[adaw]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[QUOTE=Amethyst;718313]The half is the £12993 but your payments include the £7500 advance payment so you'd need to have paid £6k odd in your monthly payments which you have more than done by the sounds of it... could you redact and post the contract in case there's any weirdness in it. @R0b. Ahhh dedicated thread http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...t-payable-quot

I don't know about the insurance - if that's a separate contract will need to see a copy of that too

Many thanks for the speedy reply!I have attempted a rough photo but can scan tomorrow if necessary. I think the 7500 comes off the £18500ish total amount and the result is then halved...

[Amethyst]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

The half is the £12993 but your payments include the £7500 advance payment so you'd need to have paid £6k odd in your monthly payments which you have more than done by the sounds of it... could you redact and post the contract in case there's any weirdness in it. [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION]. Ahhh dedicated thread http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...t-payable-quot

I don't know about the insurance - if that's a separate contract will need to see a copy of that too

[adaw]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi - forgive me if this is in the wrong thread (please tell me too!). I'm very confused - I have an HP agreement which I would like to get out of as I've moved and am caning the miles. My fault, I know...
The issue is that the finance company are saying that half the amount payable is £12,993.06 and I can't see how that can be right. I'm exactly 2 years through a 3 year agreement. I've paid £7200 (£300 per month) so they reckon I still have to pay another £6000 ish. That doesn't sound right to me as that would take me well beyond the year I have left!

The cash price was 24,145 inc vat
advance payment 7,500
amount of credit 16645
charge for credit 1841
total amount payable 25,986

half the total amount payable (it says in the section headed "termination") is £12993. Is that right? Shouldn't it take off the £7500 advance payment?

They are also saying I will have to pay off all of an additional insurance plan valued at £1008.

Please advise - many thanks,
Adam

[Dannystew80]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi just after some advice please. Just came to the end of my first PCP with Peugeot. Paid the last payment then they came to inspect the car and "found" over £400 worth of "damage" on the car most of which i would class as wear and tear on a three year old car having done 40,000 miles. Just wondering if i will be able to contest the bill??

Any advice would be greatly received.

[LadyBanker]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi R0b

The lender is FCA credit and agree it is inappropriate (and offensive) to state that they can only deal with the debtor. I will follow up with a letter of complaint as suggested. Many thanks for the advice, lets see how it goes.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Who is the lender? It seems as they are being a little silly by simply claiming that the only person who can terminate the agreement is the original debtor! Surrendering the car can only be done by the original debtor so they can't simply pick and choose what rights you will and wont have!

As the executor of the the estate, you would therefore have the authority to act as if you are in your father-in-laws shoes.

I would suggest writing a formal complaint to the lender and enclosing a copy of the letter you sent to them originally explaining that you have the power to exercise the right to VT and their suggestion that only the original creditor can do this is not only inappropriate but also impossible. You should re-iterate that the date of termination would have been the date of the letter (if you said immediate termination or whenever the date you gave). Remind them that they have 8 weeks to provide a final decision and if they fail to do so or you are not happy with the final response, you will take it to the Financial Ombudsman.

[LadyBanker]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I am an Executor for my late Father-in-Laws estate and I am trying to examin the options regarding a car that he obtained via a PCP agreement 3 years ago (at the age of 82).

Originally the company suggested that I surrender the car to them, they would sell and the estate would be liable for any difference between the sale proceeds and the outstanding agreement (including the final balloon payment). This is nearly £6K and there is no way that a three year old Fiat Panda would achieve this much at sale (current value from a car buying site around £3.7K)
There are no family members who would wish to buy the car from the estate as it is not worth the amount still owed.

I have been reading a number of threads regarding voluntary termination and sent the recommended letter to the finance company, however have just received a response to say that only the debtor can trigger the voluntary termination and nobody else. Can this be right? I cant understand how the executors (or even the estate) should be able to negotiate a more costly end to the agreement than the original debtor given that he has passed away.

Are they just trying to be difficult to avoid us using the voluntary termination protection under the CCA or is this correct? Any help gratefully received. Many thanks

[oneway]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hello ,
I am considering VT.
Just one question that I am not sure of:
My agreement with the finance company on a used car is on Contract purchase over 48 months of which I am 24 months in.
After the 48 months there is an option of paying approximately £4000 if I wish to keep the car or give it back if I don't .
Is the magic 50% mark half the 48 month contract (my current position) or do they add the final payment option ( £4000) to work out the 50% figure for me to proceed with VT ?
hope you can help
Cheers

[cheekal]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi
Just voluntarily surrendered car
Finance company want to charge me for having non run flat tyres
Can they do this

[SecretBob]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

First time poster, great site with alot of useful info. My PCP is 3 months away from ending,and have been looking at changing the car. the original supplier (Nissan) has struggled to come up with a good replacement deal, and have been usurped by a much better deal from Mercedes. in order to get the deal through, it was suggested that I VT. Never done this before, but got the following from Nissan for me to sign and return:

I am exercising my right to voluntary terminate the above Agreement. I understand how any liability amount will becalculated and the process for returning the car has been fully explained to me. I agree that I will settle any charges forcollection of the vehicle (where this option has been ticked below), damage, missing items and/or excess mileage chargesas invoiced by you.The current mileage on the vehicle is –(please complete this field – failure to complete this may result in the VT process being delayed)Signature DateMr SecretBOB –This must be signed by our customerDay time telephone numberAlternative telephone number

They have already told me that I am liable for excess mileage prorata - agreement was for 45000, currently at 42060 giving an excess charge circa £165. The car is 3 years old and has scuff marks on 3 of the alloy wheels.

Reading the info on the linked page, it seems I shouldn't be liable for the excess mileage under the credit agreement, not too sure on the liability for the scuff marks, it's £210 for 3 alloy repairs but I would argue these are wear and tear? The VT is mainly a means to get the replacement car in before the end of March and the car tax changes, I've already put a deposit on the new one but am having second thoughts on the VT. Currently adapting your draft letter for VT to include the part about denying excess mileage to send in place of their slip. Grateful for any thoughts or advice.

Decided not to go with the VT option,

[SecretBob]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

First time poster, great site with alot of useful info. My PCP is 3 months away from ending,and have been looking at changing the car. the original supplier (Nissan) has struggled to come up with a good replacement deal, and have been usurped by a much better deal from Mercedes. in order to get the deal through, it was suggested that I VT. Never done this before, but got the following from Nissan for me to sign and return:

I am exercising my right to voluntary terminate the above Agreement. I understand how any liability amount will becalculated and the process for returning the car has been fully explained to me. I agree that I will settle any charges forcollection of the vehicle (where this option has been ticked below), damage, missing items and/or excess mileage chargesas invoiced by you.The current mileage on the vehicle is –(please complete this field – failure to complete this may result in the VT process being delayed)Signature DateMr SecretBOB –This must be signed by our customerDay time telephone numberAlternative telephone number

They have already told me that I am liable for excess mileage prorata - agreement was for 45000, currently at 42060 giving an excess charge circa £165. The car is 3 years old and has scuff marks on 3 of the alloy wheels.

Reading the info on the linked page, it seems I shouldn't be liable for the excess mileage under the credit agreement, not too sure on the liability for the scuff marks, it's £210 for 3 alloy repairs but I would argue these are wear and tear? The VT is mainly a means to get the replacement car in before the end of March and the car tax changes, I've already put a deposit on the new one but am having second thoughts on the VT. Currently adapting your draft letter for VT to include the part about denying excess mileage to send in place of their slip. Grateful for any thoughts or advice.

[Vic84]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I'm In this same position with money barn I have paid 6k of a 16k agreement does this mean under VT I will have to pay £2k? I need to get shut of the car asap what's the best way, also I'm reading posts about mileage and I wasn't aware of this?

[MsMK]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi,

I phoned Northridge on Friday 3 Feb to initiate VT (which I have never done before). They went through a checklist on phone (asking if car was MOTd, had spare key etc) and said I had to take car to Auction place in Shotts (about 40 miles away) and they would confirm in writing. I've now had letter through and have dropped the car off today at Manheim. Because it's Northridge I didn't need an appointment and they wouldn't let me stay for the inspection. They said Northridge are one of the better companies and more flexible so you don't need appointment etc. However, that concerned me as I don't know what they will put on their report. I did take lots of pics on site before I left of the car

The service history of the car is up to date (just serviced in December) and the MOT not due until March. Bodywork wise there's a couple of minor road chips and some alloy wheel scuffs (car is 5 years old and I didn't buy it from new). Otherwise it's been well looked after.

There is a checklist that I have to return to Northridge after I return the vehicle asking for

• mileage,
• have I provided evidence of service history,
• Does vehicle have any mechanical faults
• Have I included V5 document
• Have I included 2 sets of keys
• Does it have a roadworthy spare wheel and tool kit

However, there is then a paragraph which says 'I confirm that I wish to exercise my rights under the above hire-purchase agreement and acknowledge that per the conditions that my liabilities under the aforementioned agreement will cease provided I have taken 'reasonable care of the goods'. If it later transpires that any of the above checklist items has been incorrectly advised, I will remain liable for the cost incurred by the finance company in remedying'. Do I have to sign this? There are no 'mechanical faults' that I know of but I am concerned in signing this they may find or invent some that I then have to cover. Just want to know what legal obligations are so that I don't have to do anything over and above that?

Also, can I now cancel direct debit since I gave them notice over 2 weeks ago?

Thanks

[Trouserkoff]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi, I'm a new poster so go easy.
ive recently VTd my car with a reasonably hefty excess mileage and have taken much of ROB's advice on how to go about this.
when being issued with the invoics I used the template letter posted earlier in the thread, Mercedes then raised a 'complaint and I received this response:


Thank you for taking the time to raise your concerns with our De-Fleet department following the return of your vehicle.

I was disappointed to read you have been left feeling aggrieved by the end of contract charges raised. It is never our intention to cause any distress to our customers at any stage of their journey with us.

Whilst I appreciate your concerns; whether you are returning your car at the end of your agreement or upon use of the Voluntary Termination (VT) clause, as you have not exercised your right to purchase the car, an excess mileage charge will be raised should your return mileage exceed your total mileage allowance. This obligation is set out within the first page of your agreement, under key information. The provisions of the Consumer Credit Act that cover a customer’s right to VT their agreement do permit us to include any over mileage when determining what is 'not reasonable' upon the cars return. It is stated in your agreement under ‘Excess Distance’; ‘If the vehicle is returned to us (whether at the end of the period hire or an earlier termination), we will calculate the total distance travelled by the vehicle whilst in your possession (the “Total Distance”)’.

Your mileage allowance has therefore been re-calculated on a pro-rata basis in line with the length of time you have had the vehicle in your possession and I have attached a copy of the Voluntary Termination acceptance form signed by you confirming your agreement to be held liable for any damages or excess mileage following an inspection of your vehicle.

Please find below a breakdown of your excess mileage calculation for your reference:

Original Allowance: 40,000 miles
Original Miles: 37,000 miles
Total allowance: 77,000 miles (40,000 + 37,000)
Term of agreement: 48 months
Terminated early by: 15 months
Revised allowance: 64,521 miles (27,521 + 37,000)
Collection miles: 111,730 miles
Exceeded by: 47,209 miles
Pence per mile: 9 pence, plus VAT
Total: £5,098.57

I would also like to kindly refer you to S99 (2) Consumer Credit Act 1974 where it states:

‘Termination of an agreement under S (1) does not affect any liability under the agreement which has accrued before the termination.’

As your agreement was subject to a mileage allowance prior to termination and you have exceeded the allowance of 64,521 miles, the charge has been raised correctly and remains payable.

I understand this is an unexpected invoice and I am happy to assist you with clearing the outstanding balance by agreeing to an appropriate payment arrangement with you. I kindly ask you contact one of our advisors on 0370 240 1110 who would be happy to assist you with this.

Whilst this may not be the response you had hoped for, I trust the above has provided you with the reassurance that I have fully investigated your concerns. Please also be assured that your complaint has been investigated in line with our obligation to treat our customers fairly.

May I kindly ask you accept this as our final response, however, should you be at all unhappy with our handling of your complaint you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge – but you must do so within six months of the date of this response. If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.


The form that I supposedly signed was altered by me and where it originally read:
'i be liable for any excess mileage'

i had scrubbed it out and wrote in:
'Anything not considered fair wear and tear'

BEAR WITH ME

I responded with this:

Hannah,


I would like to point out that at point of sale I was told that including a mileage of 10,000 was the only way to fit the vehicle into my budget and that the mileage is not really important however because I may terminate early due to my work situation. On close reading of the CCA it seems unlikely that your claim against me would be successful.


My reasoning is as follows:
Section 100 of the CCA says that my contractural liability is restricted to 50% of the total amount payable and so you would find it difficult enforce excess mileage charges under the contractual term. The relevant reasons are set out in section 173 CCA. The term in the agreement is conflicted with my limited liability and so the CCA prevails over the contractual term.
You said in your email:-

'I have attached a copy of the Voluntary Termination acceptance form signed by you confirming your agreement to be held liable for any damages or excess mileage following an inspection of your vehicle.'

And use this as evidence that I had accepted liability for excess mileage PRIOR to termination whereas if you actually look at the form you will see that I accepted no such liability. In fact it could be argued that this form should have made you aware that I was not accepting liability for the excess mileage.
Therefore where you said:-

‘Termination of an agreement under S (1) does not affect any liability under the agreement which has accrued before the termination.’

This clause would not extend to excess mileage because I was not invoiced PRIOR to termination of the agreement and in deed was only made aware of the invoice after it was terminated. This supposed liability does not form part of the monthly instalments and so for you to be entitled to recover this, you should only be entitled to do so if I were asked to pay for it BEFORE I terminated the agreement. Otherwise I may have chosen not to terminate.
There is no quid pro quo here and had I been under the mileage allowance I would not have been entitled to claim liabilities from you.


The CCA is quite clear in stating that ,subject to fair wear and tear, I may hand the car back with 'nothing more to pay' on the assumption that the car is kept in a reasonable condition and is kept in good repair.
The car has been regularly serviced by Mercedes and allowing for the odd small dent which is normal for a car of that age /mileage, it is in a good condition.


I look forward to you confirming closure on the matter.

i have since had no response since last Thursday (5 days ago)
ive had no acknowledgement of my email
i since sent again and asked for acknowledgement and didn't receive any
just now I sent an email asking for a signed copy of my agreement

anyone got any useful advice as to how I ought to proceed as it seems to me from what I've read on here that the ombudsman usually is little help!

thanks for being patient with me