Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I see, thanks for the clarification R0b. So if I dispute the collection charge there will be no danger of debt collectors / negative effect on my credit file until the ombudsman has made a decision? This is how I have read your post but please could you put my mind at ease?

Just to add if the ombudsman did side with Honda I would then pay up as court does not appeal to me one bit. You have bigger balls than I do!

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

I wont lie, I have also heard stories of the ombudsman siding with the lenders in regards to collection charges or mileage charges. But then again, the ombudsman are not legal experts and will no doubt be an ordinary joe bloggs who has little understanding of the law. On the flipside, it may have also been a case of not putting in a strong enough argument or using the relevant sections of the law. The sections I have pointed make it abundantly clear that they cannot impose further liability where there is a breach of contract once a VT has been invoked.

Even if the Ombudsman does not side with you, then you are not obliged to pay, they would still need to go to the courts to enforce it.

I too am at the ombudsman stage in relation to my own issues with a lender. Even if I lose, I still won't pay and would probably consider a declaration from the high court which would be binding.

So you are not the only one in the same boat

If you want to take it to the ombudsman you will need to run through their complaints procedure but once exhausted you will have 6 months to make your complaint to the ombudsman. Lengthy and time consuming yes but they would just expect you to cave in and pay rather than go through the hoops.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi R0b, I didn't realise it would cost them 500. Honda mentioned yesterday that they had won cases with people going to the ombudsman (specifically on collection charges) so I guess it depends on the individual on my case (or they could be making this up). I will make a decision soon but with this new information you have provided I am now on the side of disputing I think. Thanks again.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If your undecided then I suggest you make the payment. No point messing around I think, you either accept it or you dispute it. This is where lenders make their money back because people are too scared to contest it. Bear in mind you also have the right to take it to the financial ombudsman. If it goes to the ombudsman to review the lender is automatically charged 500 quid, would it be worth the lender taking it to the ombudsman a which costs them more than the claim is worth? I don't know but it would be stupid to do so.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thank you R0b (again). Undecided if I will dispute the collection charge tbh, I will see how they ask for payment and if I think it will be easy enough to contest. Last thing I need is bailiffs knocking, court, etc. Will have to think about it. Will post an update when car is collected next week.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi I'm currently considering a VT on a black horse hire purchase car as I have been leading a company car for the past 6 months and paying for both- not aware of the VT option...... I am over the 50% payment Mark but my concern is that I have not recorded dates etc of when I have had the car serviced. So I have no real service history to show. The agreement does say that I must service car as detailed in manufacturers guidance and show details of this. Will black horse try to charge me for this? Thanks in advance.

Do you not have a service history book which is stamped when you take the car to be serviced? Can you prove by other means that the car has been serviced, receipts, dates of payments made by card?

How many services has the car had whilst in your posession?

When you VT your liability is restricted to the 50% amount or the amount paid to date. Even if blackhorse do charge you then they would have to claim it on being that the car was not kept in a reasonable condition. However if the MOT's show that the car does not have any faults that need repairing that could be an indicator that it is in a reasonable condition. Alternatively, Blackhorse would need to prove that the car was not maintained to a reasonable standard which would be difficult if the car is sold at auction straight away.

Just to provide an update on my VT. I sent the letter of termination to Honda yesterday and received a phone call just now explaining next steps. The guy I spoke to was very pleasant and I feel he answered honestly on everything I asked. To summarise, I have to pay the £108 collection charge as this is enforceable in the agreement I signed. I did mention that this contravened the CCA but he was quite adamant that it didn't and people have been forced to pay in previous instances. So looks like I have to pay up as dropping the car off in Birmingham isn't an option for me. Regarding the inspection report, I did ask many times about wanting to protect myself from any nasty bills post me signing the inspection report. Honda said the process is not a money making operation and the only costs they would look to recover would be the depreciation cost of the vehicle as a result of any scuffs, scrapes, etc and not the cost of getting these repaired which would be considerably more. So looks like I am liable for at least £108 collection charge plus any charges as a result of the vehicles depreciation in value as a result of what Honda would consider my negligence ( the car is in what I would consider to be very good condition with the exception of the scuff to the bumper). Would appreciate any feedback and if the above all sounds normal in the VT process.

As I've said to numerous people before on this, your liability is restricted to half the total amount. If you want to go ahead and pay for the collection charge then thats up to you but if it was me I would refuse. Just because it is in a contract does not mean you automatically have to pay it. Where there is a conflict between contract and the law, the law prevails.

As for the inspection report, first rule is that you always get what they say in writing, if they don't want to do that then what they say could be dubious. Some people will say anything to get someone to sign something, take sales people as a good example. That being said just because it is signed and they come with further charges does not mean you have to pay them, but again your choice.

[Gemski27]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi I'm currently considering a VT on a black horse hire purchase car as I have been leading a company car for the past 6 months and paying for both- not aware of the VT option...... I am over the 50% payment Mark but my concern is that I have not recorded dates etc of when I have had the car serviced. So I have no real service history to show. The agreement does say that I must service car as detailed in manufacturers guidance and show details of this. Will black horse try to charge me for this? Thanks in advance.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Just to provide an update on my VT. I sent the letter of termination to Honda yesterday and received a phone call just now explaining next steps. The guy I spoke to was very pleasant and I feel he answered honestly on everything I asked. To summarise, I have to pay the £108 collection charge as this is enforceable in the agreement I signed. I did mention that this contravened the CCA but he was quite adamant that it didn't and people have been forced to pay in previous instances. So looks like I have to pay up as dropping the car off in Birmingham isn't an option for me. Regarding the inspection report, I did ask many times about wanting to protect myself from any nasty bills post me signing the inspection report. Honda said the process is not a money making operation and the only costs they would look to recover would be the depreciation cost of the vehicle as a result of any scuffs, scrapes, etc and not the cost of getting these repaired which would be considerably more. So looks like I am liable for at least £108 collection charge plus any charges as a result of the vehicles depreciation in value as a result of what Honda would consider my negligence ( the car is in what I would consider to be very good condition with the exception of the scuff to the bumper). Would appreciate any feedback and if the above all sounds normal in the VT process.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thank you ostell I will try that first :-)

[ostell]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

If it's just a very minor scuff, and not into a different colour, try rubbing with something like Brasso. It could just be sufficient to reduce it,.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thanks again R0b. Undecided what to do, will have to weigh it up I suppose if the second quote comes out at £200 also. Appreciate the advice.

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

The issue lenders currently have with the reasonable condition section under CCA is that they would need to provide some sort of substantive evidence which can prove the market value of the vehicle as it currently is and the market value if it was in a reasonable condition. That is a difficult task in itself and it will also cost time and money, which they then have to question is it commercially viable to go down that route. The other point to note is by the time you put that to them, the vehicle is likely to have sold at auction so it would be even more difficult to prove.

But anyway if you go ahead and have it repaired take a copy of the receipt of work done so you have proof.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Thanks R0b. Even though the scuff isn't that bad I think it is noticeable enough if I tried to cover it up with spray.I think I will get a few more quotes and if one is cheap enough I will get it fixed just so I can sleep easy after returning the car without fear of being whacked with excessive charges / bailiffs etc.

- - - Updated - - -

And by the above I don't mean fear of being whacked by a bailiff! That would be something else entirely :-)

[R0b]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Personally, if the car is in a reasonable condition given its age and the scuff isn't that horrendous where it would drastically affect the value of the car then I would leave it. The car will go to auction anyway and lenders don't pay to get the car fixed, they get a report or cost as to what it would cost to have it fixed. Even if they did fix it there is no guarantee that the car would have sold at that value because it was placed in auction and you would expect to get less than anticipated anyway, well that's my argument at least

The choice is yours, will be worthwhile getting a couple of quotes, ask them to put in writing even on some headed paper and then if the lender tries to charge an extortionate amount you can argue that actually it would cost X from the quotes you have got. Even still the lender is likely to have a discounted rate with a specific company to complete the repairs so it might be argued the price is inflated to cover the cost of the repair plus profit.

There's a shedload of arguments both sides can say to recover or dismiss the charges so ultimately its up to what you think.

Edit: can it not be touched up with a bit of spray the day before the inspection? might help reduce any charges.

[James1982]

Re: Voluntary Termination of a Hire purchase or conditional loan under the CCA 1974

Hi R0b. I am looking to get a scuff repaired on the bumper before I hand the car back. Do you think this is a good idea? I have a quote of £200 but can I leave it and when it gets highlighted on the inspection report just give Honda the quote I have if they try to charge me an arm and a leg to repair? Would this be an option?