VT with RCI - my experiences so far.

[BeardManMatt]

Evening all,

Ive been a lurker for a while, and finally decided to VT and post about it.

I have constructed a letter to send to RCI finance using Robs very good guide and template letters in the pinned post. (I hope I've tagged correctly!?)

Im hoping to update this and finish it off with the final result. I have read people threads and was intrigued to get to the end only to find its incomplete.*

Anyway, my letter:




End Of Contract Department
Nissan Finance
Rivers Office Park
Denham Way
Maple Cross
Rickmansworth
WD3 9YS

By first class post and email:*vtteam@rcibanque.com
22/01/2020 – agreement number: 2200540xxx – BA66 xxx
To whom it may concern,
Termination of**hire-purchase agreement in accordance with section 99(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA 1974”)
I am writing to inform you that I am exercising my right to terminate the above agreement with immediate effect in accordance with Section 99 of the CCA 1974.
As shown on the paperwork emailed to me by yourselves on 17/01/2020, I have to date paid £21,265.06 and therefore have exceeded the half total price payable under the agreement.
As a result of the above and again indicated by the paperwork sent to me on 17/01/2020 I therefore believe i have no further installments to pay.

I have received your request for the ‘return slip’ to be completed, signed and returned.*
As you are no doubt aware, there is no provision in Section 99(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a return slip to be completed or signed in order to terminate, only that notice must be given in writing.*
I therefore respectfully decline to supply a signed return slip.

I have inspected the vehicle and given its use as a family vehicle and its age, I believe the vehicle to be in more than reasonable condition.*
I have taken photographs of both the interior and exterior to document this should it be necessary to dispute any claim made to the contrary in the future.

I would like to remind you that as a consequence of terminating the agreement under Section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and having met the relevant criteria under Section 100(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, my liability is limited to one half of the total price payable.
Any additional costs, expenses, compensation or otherwise relating to a breach of the agreement are not recoverable.*
If, however, you prefer the vehicle to be delivered elsewhere, then I am willing to consider this but require an undertaking from you agreeing to pay my reasonable costs and expenses prior to it being delivered to your preferred location.

Finally, In line with the recently updated GDPR guidelines (May 2018) I would like you to update your records to show that I would like to be contacted via email at the above address for all/any future correspondence.*

I would appreciate it if you could confirm receipt of this email so that we can discuss a mutually beneficial time to return the vehicle to you.
*
Yours faithfully
*


xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx




I have been worrying about this whole process and really don't want to get it wrong.*

Do i need the paragraph about additional costs, as i am under the mileage?

Any proof reading and advice welcome.

Thanks

Matt




*

[BeardManMatt]

Anyone?*

I don't want to seem the needy type but just want to make sure Ive go the basics covered and im not confusing things.*

I thought id preempt their response in regards to not filling in the return slip.*

cheers

[R0b]

Hello

In order to tag someone so they get a notification, you need to use the '@' symbol in front of their name. The tags at the end of the post that you have input I believe only apply to tags when doing a search of the forum.

I don't think I've seen these return slips that finance companies are issuing so it would be helpful if you could post up a copy. Does the slip have any statement saying you agree to pay the costs of inspection or collection of the vehicle?

Anyway, my comments below.

As a result of the above and again indicated by the paperwork sent to me on 17/01/2020 I therefore believe i have no further installments to pay.

It isn't necessary to repeat or refer to the agreement again so I dont think that part is needed in the sentence. All you need to say is that no further instalments are required.

Do i need the paragraph about additional costs, as i am under the mileage?

If you are absolutely certain there is no excess mileage based on pro-rata then leave it out. Even if you are charged excess mileage that paragraph isn't necessary from the start but just makes it clear you know your rights. You can always mention that at a later stage.

[BeardManMatt]

Hello

In order to tag someone so they get a notification, you need to use the '@' symbol in front of their name. The tags at the end of the post that you have input I believe only apply to tags when doing a search of the forum.

Thanks, i will try to remember that for next time. Its been a while since I've used a forum.*

I don't think I've seen these return slips that finance companies are issuing so it would be helpful if you could post up a copy. Does the slip have any statement saying you agree to pay the costs of inspection or collection of the vehicle?

Im hoping I've managed to attach a copy of mine below now...

Anyway, my comments below.


It isn't necessary to repeat or refer to the agreement again so I dont think that part is needed in the sentence. All you need to say is that no further instalments are required.


If you are absolutely certain there is no excess mileage based on pro-rata then leave it out. Even if you are charged excess mileage that paragraph isn't necessary from the start but just makes it clear you know your rights. You can always mention that at a later stage.

Thats all understood thanks. Letter edited.*

RCI Return Slip.pdf

[BeardManMatt]

Update.*

I sent the above letter to RCI via email and post on friday the 30/01/2020.*

I received an email from a member of the VT Team telling me that they still required a signature to start the process. *As mentioned i also sent the letter via snail mail tracked and signed for. Apart from not accepting signed for items one the weekend the letter was successfully delivered on 02/02/2020.

I have drafted the following reply:

Hi Laura,


Please accept my apologies for the late reply. I have had a very busy few days.

First off, i do wish to keep these emails/correspondence cordial and respectful, it is not my intention to be abrupt or awkward in any way and so i apologise if it appears otherwise. I do however have to look after my own interests, and have taken*legal advice on the matter as im sure you understand.*

I note your previous email and your point about needing a signature to terminate my agreement. I still do not believe this to be the case as per my last email. There is no wording in Section 99(1) of the CCA 1974 that says the debtor needs a signature to terminate their agreement. If needed i will be referring back to 31/01/2020 as my date of termination, the date my termination via email was acknowledged by RCI.*

As it happens, i have supplied a signed physical copy of the termination letter. it was signed for at the address below on Monday 03/02/2020 at 07:21.

As a result of the above i have instructed my bank to stop the direct debit payments to RCI. I now consider my agreement with RCI terminated. I have emptied the vehicle of all personnel effects and have gathered together all the documentation and equipment relating to it ready for collection.*

At the moment the vehicle remains taxed and insured with a valid MOT certificate and is parked on my drive. However the above arrangement cannot continue for an unspecified amount of time. I believe i am*providing a reasonable amount of time for you to arrange collection and as such i do not intend to renew any of the liabilities connected to the car.*

Tax expires - 17/01/2020
Insurance expires - 20/02/2020
MOT expires - 20/02/2020

As mentioned in my original email i would be grateful if we can move forward with this and return the vehicle to you as soon as possible. I am happy for you to forward my phone number and email address to the collection agency.

Regards

Does this sound ok?
R0b

As much as i want to be legally correct and not become liable i am also a great believer in being courteous and professional when possible. The person on the other end of these emails is after all just trying to do a job.*


One other point i would like clarification on is the subject of a service being due relatively soon. At the point of VT (31/01/20) there is no service light on. If it comes on between now and them collecting the vehicle where do i stand?*

Thanks as always

Matt

[R0b]

Looks fine, if you want to beef it up I've added some extra wording below. Feel free to use as much or as little as you want.

Please accept my apologies for the late reply. I have had a very busy few days.

First off, i do wish to keep these emails/correspondence cordial and respectful, it is not my intention to be abrupt or awkward in any way and so i apologise if it appears otherwise. I do however have to look after my own interests, and have takenlegal advice on the matter as im sure you understand.

I note your previous email and your point about needing a signature to terminate my agreement before you will accept my letter of termination. Just to be clear, Section 99(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states:

"At any time before the final payment by the debtor under a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement falls due, the debtor shall be entitled to terminate the agreement by giving notice to any person entitled or authorised to receive the sums payable under the agreement."

The expression "notice" is defined in Section 189 of the Act as meaning "notice in writing". There is nothing within Section 99(1) or anywhere else in the Act that requires a signature, phyiscal or otherwise, to enable me to validly exercise my voluntary termination right. Indeed, I have made several requests for you to refer me to the relevant provision within the Act that says the notice must be signed, yet so far you have failed (or ignored) to do this. In any event:

- you contacted me using the telephone number listed on your system;
- prior to confirming that you received the letter, you asked me several security questions to verify me;
- the letter was emailed to you using the email address registered on your system, and I have continued to correspond with you using that same email address; and
- in any event, I provided you with a signed copy of the letter sent by recorded delivery, which was signed for on Monday 3 February 2020 at 07:21.

In my view, there is absolutely no reason why you have any lawful reason to reject my letter of termination and as far as I'm concerned, the agreement terminated on 31 January 2020 when I emailed the letter to you and was subsequently acknowledged on the same day. I am concerned that your persistance in demanding that I provide you with a signed version of the letter and so I have looked into this further with respect to the legal position. Your refusal to accept my termination letter whilst imposing new termination conditions not required under the Act (that is, demanding a physical signature) has deprived me of my statutory right to terminate the agreement and limit my liability to one half of the total price. I find that your conduct amounts to a repudiatory breach of contract and the position has been affirmed by the recent case Sanderson Limited v Simtom Food Products Limited [2019] EWHC 442 (TCC). In that case, the High Court held that a party who refuses to perform unless the innocent party complies with conditions not required by the contract (in this case, the Act) is in repudiatory breach.

As a result of the above i have instructed my bank to stop the direct debit payments to RCI and I now consider my agreement with RCI terminated. I have emptied the vehicle of all personnel effects and have gathered together all the documentation and equipment relating to it ready for collection. At the moment the vehicle remains taxed and insured with a valid MOT certificate and is parked on my drive. However the above arrangement cannot continue for an unspecified amount of time. Accordingly, this letter serves as notice that you are required to come and collect the vehicle and I will need to be given reasonable advance notice so that I can be present to inspect the vehicle and hand over the keys and documents. Please note that the tax will expire on [date], while the insurance and MOT will not expire until [date].

As mentioned in my original email i would be grateful if we can move forward with this and return the vehicle to you as soon as possible. I am happy for you to forward my phone number and email address to the collection agency.

Regards

[BeardManMatt]

Thank you Rob,

Slightly re-worded, also amended the tax expiry date for February which is of course what i meant to put in my original letter!*

On a separate note Rob, how do i find case law relating to the topic im trying to prove? Is there a free source i can use? i tried a couple of searches via google and was met with requests to pay for access. If i have to pay then so be it.*

I only had a brief google as i was trying to get to sleep at a decent time but will try again tomorrow.

My next subject to research is cases that have gone to court where the debtor has challenged the creditor on paying for charges after termination. Ie the service that im convinced they will want to charge me for, as im convinced the service light will come on before they collect the vehicle.

Many thanks for you help with this so far.*

[R0b]

BAILII is the free source for published judgments, but there are others that need to be accessed by other means i.e. payment so you can try searching using BAILII.

The only recent and direct decision relating to excess mileage and charges is a County Court case from this thread. I purchased a transcript of the judgment and you can find a copy of it here.

There's a couple of cases referred to in the judgment which are relevant: Brady v St Margaret's Trust and Julian Hodge Bank v Hall. There are also a couple of other decisions I have come across since then that I have found to be relevant. Copies of the judgments are somewhere in my collection so I will try to source them and PM you.

[BeardManMatt]

just an update,

On the 6th of Feb I received a garbled voicemail from a number i didnt recognise, i looked up the number and it was Manheim collection services.*

After calling back and speaking to a very polite lady we have arranged a collection date of the 17th of feb.

After the call, Manheim also emailed a 'vehicle inspection guidline' pdf across with confirmation of the collection date.*

Everything on the guide seems pretty standard, or at least what i expected to see. I shall try to attach it below.

I have drafted a reply to Manheim, I am struggling somewhat in how i go about saying what i need to say. Obviously they are just acting on behalf of RCI and so i have no issue with them, i however feel it pertinent to tell them i won't be signing anything on the day and if the vehicle is not removed i will return it to the highway sans tax and insurance as i have already told RCI. I don't want to be abrupt or too formal but feel they should be aware.

As always, some guidance would be greatly appreciated...again.*





Hi Neve,

Many thanks for your email and subsequent vehicle preparation guide pdf sent 06 February 2020.

I have read through these and I just have one potential issue/point I would like to make so there is no confusion on the date of inspection (17^th*February 2020).

Your guideline states I will be required to sign the inspector’s tablet.*
As I terminated my finance agreement with RCI on the 31^st*January 2020 I no longer have any rights to or liability towards the vehicle and as such I will be respectfully declining to sign anything that may count as liability in the future.*

I have informed RCI that I will not be renewing the insurance or the tax on the vehicle after midnight on the 17^thFebruary 2020 as I believe I have already provide a reasonable amount of time and personal expense in order for RCI to arrange collection of the vehicle.*

I do understand that Manheim Inspection Services are operating on the instructions of RCI, and I in no way have any issue with Manheim and their operating practices.*

As per your required items checklist I can confirm I have the following to accompany the vehicle:
2 x keys
1 x stamped service book and manual
1 x V5 document
1 x unused spare wheel
1 x locking wheel nut key

regards





*

[BeardManMatt]

Having thought about this over the weekend(always dangerous!)

I think in fact i need to be emailing RCI explaining that Manheim have been in touch and that a collection date of 17th Feb has been arranged.
I will reiterate that regardless of Manheim's preferred practice of signatures and not taking vehicles with service lights etc etc that the vehicle will be placed on the road and transferred into their name on the 17th feb as has been previously explained.

I think then i just copy the lady from Manheim in on it so they can(or not) talk about it. If they haven't already.*

I will adapt my previous post to suit.*

[R0b]

The guidelines say that you are asked to sign the report and confirm whether you agree or disagree with what has been recorded. I dont think there is any harm is signing it provided that it does only say that you disagree with the inspection report.

if it goes beyond that then I would be more wary of signing the tablet.*

Also, maybe I've missed it but cant see where you mentioned that the service light has come on? That's also not reflected in your letter either.

[BeardManMatt]

The guidelines say that you are asked to sign the report and confirm whether you agree or disagree with what has been recorded. I dont think there is any harm is signing it provided that it does only say that you disagree with the inspection report.

if it goes beyond that then I would be more wary of signing the tablet.

Noted and understood

Also, maybe I've missed it but cant see where you mentioned that the service light has come on? That's also not reflected in your letter either.

Im not actually sure it has, i have cleaned and emptied the car and*haven't been out to it since, i*don't intend to have*anything else to do with it until they come for it. Or at least that is the plan.
The service light was not on when i cleaned it and took all of my photos.*

i have amended my email to Neve from Manheim posted above and will now email the below to RCI Finance and CC Manheim in.

*

Mr Matthew *****
*Wesley Way
Tamworth
B77 ***
***********
*****@***mail.com

End Of Contract Department
Nissan Finance
Rivers Office Park
Denham Way
Maple Cross
Rickmansworth
WD3 9YS


11/02/2020 – agreement number: 2200540154 – BA66 ***

To whom it may concern,
I have recently been contacted by Manheim Inspection Services who have arranged for the collection of the above vehicle on your behalf.*
This will take place on the 17^th*February 2020.
As I have had no contact or acknowledgement from RCI could you please advise if this has not been authorized by yourselves?

I also received an email from Manheim on 06^th*February with some useful information and a guideline on what to have ready on the day.*

As per the guideline I can confirm I have the following to accompany the vehicle:
2 x keys
1 x stamped service book and manual
1 x V5 document
1 x unused spare wheel
1 x locking wheel nut key

The guideline states I will be required to sign the inspector’s tablet.*
As I terminated my finance agreement with RCI on the 31^st*January 2020 I no longer have any rights to or liability towards the vehicle and as such I will be respectfully declining to sign anything that may count as liability in the future.*

May I also draw attention to my previous email dated 05/02/2020 in regard to the expiry date of the vehicles tax, Insurance and the inconvenience to me personally in occupying space on my property.*
Having read the guideline I can confirm there are no warning lights or issues with the vehicle and its documentation that would prevent collection.*
If however the vehicle is not collected then as I believe I have provided reasonable time and opportunity, I will be informing the DVLA of the change in ownership and placing the vehicle onto the public highway.


Having read the guideline again it actually says warning lights for defective equipment may prevent collection. a service light i think is just an advisory light and not a warning light.*

[BeardManMatt]

Email amended and sent.*


Out of curiosity if the vehicle isn't collected for whatever reason. I will inform the DVLA online that i am not the keeper anymore. What address and name would i use for RCI? The End od agreement team and address? or the one listed on their website?*

Cheers

[R0b]

You use the address listed on the agreement because that's the company you contracted with.

[BeardManMatt]

You use the address listed on the agreement because that's the company you contracted with.

got it. cheers


Had a reply to my email confirming they had authorised the collection.*


Good afternoon,
*
Many thanks for your kind email.
*
I can confirm we have authorised Manheim to collect the vehicle on our behalf.
*
In regards to any potential future charges, we will still expect these to be addressed appropriately, if there should be any, in line with your contractual obligations.
*
As long as all of Manheim’s guidelines for collection have been followed, as indicated by your below notes, I can foresee no reason for the vehicle not to be collected.
*
Kind regards,


I wasn't going to reply with a comment about my contractual obligations ending on the VT date. However i haven't as yet.
The email arrived late in the day Friday, they won't be in over the weekend, Im really busy this weekend and they are coming to collect the car Monday morning. I spoke to a chap from Manheim and he seemed pleasant enough.*

Will report back Monday when the car is gone.*

Have a good weekend all.