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unwittingly bought a used car with outstanding finance

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  • unwittingly bought a used car with outstanding finance

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    Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:39:PM.
    Tags: @r0b

  • #2
    First of all, please let us know the name of the finance company so we can establish who we are dealing with. It sounds like you've already done some homework on this because you've identified that there is no legal obligation to carry out a HPI check on a vehicle concerning a private sale. Equally, section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964 affords protection to innocent buyers who have in good faith purchased goods subject to hire purchase - this is known as the exception to the general rule that a person cannot transfer title to goods that they don't own.

    Can you confirm whether you have legal expenses insurance that covers you for this sort of dispute and does it include a solicitor acting on your behalf or is it limited to a legal helpline? As to whoever you had spoken to about the market value not applying in a private sale, I don't think they have their head screwed on properly (or that they are clearly unqualified or lack the legal knowledge) because that's not as a general rule correct.

    It's well established and has been for centuries that the normal measure of damages where someone has deprived another of their goods, is to compensate the injured party for their loss. That loss would be the market value of the goods assessed at the time of the taking of the goods because that's a representation of your loss. It is also a general rule that any consequential losses flowing from the loss of the goods are also recoverable.

    The cause of action for your claim against the finance company is conversion (there is also trespass to goods but that is less serious than conversion and only covers minor breaches). The tort of conversion covers a number scenarios with one of them being conversion by taking possession. The elements you are required to prove is: (1) an unauthorised person (2) deliberately took possession of the goods (3) with the intention of excluding the true owner of possession.

    Seems to me that based on what you;ve said, you have all those elements satisfied. Do you have any written correspondence from the finance company? The onus is on them to prove that you knew that the car was on finance prior to agreeing to purchase it - that is a rather high hurdle to pass in all reality, especially where the seller has gone off grid.

    So, now that the finance company has possession, your only real recourse is probably to issue a claim and take them to court over it. If you instruct a solicitor the case is likely to land on the small claims track meaning legal fees are not recoverable. So any use of a solicitor means it will come out of your own pocket and posibly cost you more than you are claiming. Your alternative is to double check any insurance to see if you have legal expenses cover and utilise that or finally, to go it alone and run the claim yourself.





    If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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    LEGAL DISCLAIMER
    Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

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    • #3
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      Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:36:PM.

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      • #4
        Can you provide the full name of the company CLS as there are so many companies with the name CLS in it. I am presuming you are referring to CLS Finance (https://www.clsfinance.co.uk/) but your confirmation that this is the company would be helpful.

        I dont think their sole reliance on the fact that you might live in what could be described as an affluent area (if indeed they are implying that) would be sufficient. Market value of a car depends on a number of things, including its condition, mileage, age etc. And if theres a number of websites suggesting a similar valuation then that could defeat their argument.

        Solicitors fees are likely to be in the region of at least £1,500 - £2000 from start to finish and that's best case scenario. Worst case you might be looking anywhere between £2,000 - £4,000 as an average.

        So if anything, you are probably better off going it alone if you do want to pursue it. Next steps would be to send a letter before action setting out the background, the wrongdoing by CLS and what action is required to resolve the matter.

        One thing that's sprung to mind and I forgot to mention earlier is that you said the car was parked on your property and your CCTV captured this. Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 a creditor is prohibited from repossessing goods subject to a hire purchase agreement if they are on any premises. I couldnt find any specific definition of what is meant by premises but if you look at the ordinary meaning, it would suggest any land or builds owned by someone.

        As CLS are in breach of this specific provision, you can bring an action against them for that breach. It would be an alternative argument to conversion if that argument failed. If memory serves me correct, I believe there has been case law where a creditor in breach of that provision meant that a court had ordered the return of it - in your case that would assist you if claiming damages.

        If you are serious about going it alone I have a letter before claim relating to similar circumstances that might help you to set out your position. You can have a stab at drafting it yourself and then post on here for comments before sending it off to CLS.
        If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
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        LEGAL DISCLAIMER
        Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
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          Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:37:PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Scare tactics, that's all.

            You need to decide what to do - do you know who from the company had came to pick up the car?
            If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            LEGAL DISCLAIMER
            Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

            Comment


            • #7
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              Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:37:PM.

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              • #8
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                Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:37:PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've attached an example from another similar post on here. Personally, I prefer headings but to give you an idea of what you should include I've set out some points below.

                  1. Introduction - this should be a couple of sentences to say that the letter before action is being sent in accordance with the Practice Direction for Pre-Action Conduct and Protocols.

                  2. Summary of your claim - no more than a short paragraph summarising your case making reference to conversion, trespass to property and breach of Section 92(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

                  3. Relevant facts - This will be a concise, summary of the facts leading up to CLS taking the car from your property. Ideally, it shouldn't be longer than 1/3 to 1/2 of the page.

                  4. Documents or evidence enclosed - If you have any evidence you want to share at this point.

                  5. Action required - this is where you set out what you want to resolve the matter. In your case you can say damages since they have already acknowledged their intention of selling the car.

                  There's no hard and fast rule about how much or little detail you give but there should be sufficient information to give CLS an idea of the nature of your claim to enable them to consider their position.

                  Attached Files
                  If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                  LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                  Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
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                    Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:38:PM.

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                    • #11
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                      Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:38:PM.

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                      • #12
                        That doesn't necessarily mean that because no damage has been caused they aren't liable to pay some compensatory amount. You should be focusing your research on the tort of conversion - here's a couple of links to get you started:

                        https://hallellis.co.uk/tort-of-conversion/

                        https://www.lawteacher.net/lecture-n...with-goods.php

                        Yes you would be considered the owner in accordance with s.27 of the HP Act.

                        Yes they should have obtained a court order because the Consumer Credit Act says that goods subject to a hire-purchase agreement cannot be taken from private land without an order of the court.

                        Consequential losses will be losses flowing from the taking of the car. For example, did you have to spend money using a train or a bus to get to and from work; what about the use of a taxi? If yes, you should keep receipts as this will be evidence of your losses.

                        If you are really exhausted from doing some research, maybe going to court isn't the best idea and reside yourself to losing the car and not obtaining justice from CLS.

                        We can guide you along with the legal stuff but you need to do your part and fill in the facts and anything else we aren't aware of.

                        If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                        Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
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                          Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:38:PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
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                            Last edited by moliu3000; 14th January 2020, 15:38:PM.

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                            • #15
                              Market value as at the date of conversion plus any consequential. The £3000 might not be representative of the cars market value if sold by auction so you need all those valuation figures and perhaps take the average from it - you'll need to keep them as printouts for evidence going to court.

                              Think you need to step up the pace on this one.
                              If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                              - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                              LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                              Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                              Comment

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