**WON** PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

[tbird]

Hi Everyone,

I am looking on guidance with regards to a PCN received at a Sainsburrys car park. I had unknowingly over parked by 31 minutes BUT a fine for £70 really ?? The car park is a free car park and was not nearly close to capacity - what to do ?

Thanks and hope someone can help guide me before I pay

Thanks

Tbird

[mystery1]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

Complain to Sainsburys management.


Appeal to the parking firm. (smart parking ?)


Dear Sirs,


I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals process. The driver did not see any signs. I note your notice to keeper is fundamentally flawed when compared to PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para 8/9 in several aspects .


Should you reject my appeal please supply a popla code.


Yours etc


If popla is need let me know.




M1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

Thanks @mystery1 smart? it this the number plate recognition system? If it is then yes the PCN came through with smart technology.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

Thanks @mystery1 smart? it this the number plate recognition system? If it is then yes the PCN came through with smart technology.

It's my guess at the name of the cowboys trying to get your hard earned.

M1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

@mystery1 I will complain in the AM to Sainsburys and write the letter to the parking company. I returned to car park today to view signs etc and have taken photos. They are on entry and all exit points. Just nothing I have ever bothered to read as the council car park (which was taken over by Horizon Parking last year I am lead to believe on a local web forum tonight) used to be 4 hours. So should I still put ' I did not see any signs'?

[mystery1]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

Dear Sirs,




I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals process. The driver did not see any signs and was a genuine shopper. I note your notice to keeper is fundamentally flawed when compared to PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para 8/9 in several aspects .




Should you reject my appeal please supply a popla code.




Yours etc

Makes little difference. I'd go with this one.

M1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

a company called Horizon Parking @mystery1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

@mystery1 Sainsburys don't want to know have palmed me off to Horizon Parking

Before I send letter can I ask if I can fight on the POFA 2012 and the exorbitant charges? As I did see signs, the issue was I guestimated my park time and didn't read the signs (which is possibly my fault for not reading the signs correctly)

I don't want to be lumbered with £70 fine if I don't get appeal overturned - short of money due to ill health and not working this year...

should I still proceed?

[mystery1]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

As we are in a transition from popla provider 1 to popla provider 2 there is a little uncertainty as to how appeals will be handled. Under popla provider 1 it was easy to win with the correct arguments and, to my knowledge, nobody i wrote one for lost. 100%.

It'll be a big change of methodology to reverse this but until some results are known i cannot state for certain you'll win. I would say appeal though.

Horizon are not particularly litigious.



Dear Sirs,


I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals process. The driver did was a genuine shopper. I note your notice to keeper is fundamentally flawed when compared to PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para 9 in several aspects .


Should you reject my appeal please supply a popla code.


Yours etc


M1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

In for a penny in for a ... no 70 pound !

So incensed by the exorbitant fee and the additional £1.50 for paying by debit card that im going to follow your advice and proceed!

Thank you @mystery1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

@mystery1 this is the response I received from parking company;

"In light of your representations that you were a Sainsbury’s customer on site at the time in question, we would be prepared to reconsider the status of this Notice should we receive evidence of your claim.
We therefore require you to send us a copy of your receipts, or any other evidence (bank, credit card or Nectar statement) which would support your claim that you were shopping in Sainsbury’s, so that we may assess your appeal accordingly. However, until such time as this evidence is received this Notice will continue to remain outstanding.
We will hold this Notice at the current rate for an additional 14 days from the date of this correspondence to allow time for the documentation requested to be received."
I responded with:
"Occupants had previously been walking dog so unfortunately no wallets - hence cash paid and no nectar card used. The receipt has been hunted for high and low a big task as you can imagine! I can only surmise it was left in the shopping bag and crumpled up to be used later as a bin bag (as Is common practice in many household) and thrown away with the garbage. Have drafted a letter to Sainsbury's HO explaining the position, but for now please continue with the appeal process that I as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals process. I note your notice to keeper is fundamentally flawed when compared to PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para 8/9 in several aspects .
I look forward to your response but once again should you reject my appeal please supply a POPLA code"
They have just responded with this:
"Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Parking Charge Notice.
I can confirm the Parking Charge Notice was issued correctly and legally in accordance with the British Parking Associations (BPA) Code of Practice.
This particular car park is operated by automated number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras. The ANPR cameras capture an image of vehicles entering and exiting the car park and calculate their length stay.
Your vehicle entered the car park on **/09/2015 at ** and exited at ** which is a total stay duration of 3 hours and 31 minutes. The maximum period allowed at this particular car park is 3 hours.
Signage throughout the car park is compliant with the BPA rules and regulation. The signage is quite clear in its intent and is located throughout the car park. When parking on private land it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure they adhere to the terms of the conditions of using the car park.
Regarding the amount charged, I would draw your attention to the Court of Appeal’s ruling in Parking Eye v Beavis [2015]. The charge in this instance is reasonable, not exorbitant and enforceable on the same basis.
In light of this, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected.
The charge will be held at the current rate of £40.00 for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence"
Please be advised £1.50 handling charge will be applied to debit and credit card payments Alternatively, payment can be made via cheque made payable to xxxxx and posted to Horizon parking
You have now reached the end of our appeals procedure. Although we have now rejected your appeal, you may appeal to Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA), an independent appeals service within 28 days of the date of this correspondence. To appeal to POPLA, please go to their website www.popla.org.ukand follow the instructions. If you would rather deal with this matter by post, please contact our Appeals Office and we will send you the necessary paperwork.

Your POPLA reference number is *********

Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case you will be requested to pay the charge at the full amount and will no longer qualify for payment at the reduced rate.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA as explained above "



I don't know how they can swing from - find a receipt and all is forgive! To no receipt pay the fine!

Please help

[mystery1]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

Do you have a rough idea when it was and what was purchased ? They may be able to track it instore and reprint it.

Failing that popla it is.

I'll add you to my list for popla. http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...udsman-appeals

M1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

@mystery1
It was a friend so unsure can ask... but sainsburys have been very uncooperative so far. so would rather not involve them as I have already told them where to go! I cant believe they would not have given us that option in the beginning!

You said popla is no longer and popla 2 is the ombudsman? Is this who I have to appeal to with my popla nr?

Quote from Horizon "By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA as explained above"

Also what they said re - Parking Eye v Beavis ... is this an acceptable amount?

[mystery1]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

That ombudsman stuff is about some new consumer protection stuff. Don't worry about it.

Popla is also run by ombudsmen. Different animals.

Beavis is a case that is due to have the result published by the supreme court any week now.

Popla is the best option in my mind but bide your time until nearer the deadline which allows analysis (hopefully) of the new popla rulings and also the Beavis ruling.

M1

[tbird]

Re: PCN to challenge (rip or charges) or not to challenge

I will check in about 12 days time - thank you [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION]