Parking eye _ WON

[kellieee]

I today received a PCN from parking eye .I was a little over the 2 hours in a supermarket carpark .
I'm appealing and have sent off with the email proof of till receipt for the supermarket and proof of my Disabilities and mobility problems as to why it takes me longer then others to walk and get about .
What do you think my chances are of getting this overturned ? I only accepted I was the registered keeper and not the driver .

Thanks in advance for those that take the time to read and reply

[mystery1]

Re: Parking eye

Very good. Parking Eye are pretty decent if you supply proof of purchase. Failing that popla will have to do :okay:

M1

[kellieee]

Parking eye

Just received in the post a letter stating my appeal was unsuccessful .I showed them proof I shopped in the Morrisons showed them proof I'am disabled copies of my diagnosis letters .Yet seems even though I have a heart condition that I could go into sudden cardiac arrest and need blue lightening to hospital taking up a car parking space for an extra 47 mins is of more importance .Absolute bunch of ******** .I won't ever shop in Morrisons again they have lost my custom .

Now I get to appeal via POPLA just what I love more stress

[ostell]

Re: Parking eye

Have you taken it up with the management of the store in question? Not the people manning the service desk, the real manager. They should be able to tell PE to cancel, especially if you are disabled.

Should not be a problem with POPLA but put it on here first before you send.

[kellieee]

Re: Parking eye

Just spoke with the store manager one of the duty managers he s giving me til Tuesday and said he'll cancel it uf I bring in my bits and bobs hope he does as I'm on my way there soon as it's 83 mles away .Was the Morrisons near a family member rather than my local branch .Just hope he is not on a wind up

[mystery1]

Re: Parking eye

Just spoke with the store manager one of the duty managers he s giving me til Tuesday and said he'll cancel it uf I bring in my bits and bobs hope he does as I'm on my way there soon as it's 83 mles away .Was the Morrisons near a family member rather than my local branch .Just hope he is not on a wind up

It's unusual for parking eye to refuse with proof of purchase. I can only guess the amount didn't meet their secret requirements.

I'd ask if he'll take email to save that hassle. In any event a decent popla appeal would usually take care of it.





I wish to appeal this parking charge on the following grounds.








1. The charges are penalties and not a contractual charge, breach of contract or trespass. They are not a genuine pre estimate of loss either.




2. In order to form a contract the signs need to be clear so that they must be seen by an average person. They were not. There was no breach of contract.




3. Parking Eye do not hold sufficient interest in the land to offer a motorist a contract to park. They have no locus standi.




4. Parking Eye have failed to adhere to the BPA code of practice.




5. Unreliable, unsynchronised and non-compliant ANPR system.








1.The charges are penalties.




The charges are represented as a failure to comply with the terms and conditions. The driver has disabilities and accordingly took longer than normal expecting the equalities act 2010 to take effect, that is giving more leeway to a person with disabilities "reasonable adjustment". According to the BPA code "If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a act of trespass, this charge must be proportionate and commercially justifiable. We would not expect this amount to be more than £100. If the charge is more than this, operators must be able to justify the amount in advance"




£100 is clearly not proportionate to a stay in a car park in which the vehicle is allowed to be in nor is it commercially justified because it would make no sense if a disabled person could not have enough time to spend money in store creating a profit for the landholder. £100 is clearly a penalty. The £100 is not a genuine pre estimate of loss as the loss of revenue being nil is crystal clear nor is it a genuine offer to park for £100. It is a penalty. It is not an attempt to claim liquidated damages which should be a genuine pre estimate of loss.


I require ParkingEye to submit a full breakdown of how these losses are calculated in this particular car park and for this particular ‘contravention’. Parking Eye cannot lawfully include their operational day to day running costs (e.g. provision of signs, ANPR and parking enforcement) in any ‘loss’ claimed. Not only are those costs tax deductible, but were no breaches to occur in that car park, the cost of parking 'enforcement ' would still remain the same.




According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges for breach on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the time the motorist is parked there. As the landowner imposes a parking fee for the area in question, there is only the limited loss to whoever it is due. The Office of Fair Trading has stated that ''a ‘parking charge’ is not automatically recoverable simply because it is stated to be a parking charge, as it cannot be used to state a loss where none exists.''




In Parking Eye v Beavis it was found that the charges were penalties although specific to that car park they were commercially Justifiable which clearly can't be in the case or trespass. Parking Eye v Cargius distinguished Beavis in relation to paid parking. Beavis is also subject to appeal in any case.




When one looks at the sign one sees that non blue badge holders are not allowed to park in disabled bays and are charged £100 if they do then it becomes even clearer that £100 is to deter people from misusing disabled bays and that £100 is an arbitrary amount charged for all transgressions and as such is an unenforceable penalty. If you park outside the lines you are also charged £100 which, if not a penalty, would indicate you could park across the entrance for £100 for as long as you want for £100.








2. Unclear and non-compliant signage, forming no contract with drivers.




I require signage evidence in the form of a site map and dated photos of the signs at the time of the parking event. I would contend that the signs (wording, position and clarity) fail to properly inform the driver of the terms and any consequences for breach, as in the case of Excel Parking Services Ltd v Martin Cutts, 2011. As such, the signs were not so prominent that they 'must' have been seen by the driver - who would never have agreed to pay £100 in a carpark where they could have paid £1.50 had they seen the signs which they did not. It was not a genuine attempt to contract for unlimited parking in return for £100.




As the PCN had no VAT content to it, it cannot be for a service. It must therefore be a penalty.








3.. Contract with landowner - no locus standi








Parking eye do not own nor have any interest or assignment of title of the land in question. As such, I do not believe that Parking eye has the necessary legal capacity to enter into a contract with a driver of a vehicle parking in the car park, or indeed to allege a breach of contract. Accordingly, I require sight of a full copy of the actual contemporaneous, signed and dated site agreement/contract with the landowner (and not just a signed slip of paper saying that it exists). Some parking companies have provided “witness statements” instead of the relevant contract. There is no proof whatsoever that the alleged signatory has ever seen the relevant contract, or, indeed is even an employee of the landowner. Nor would a witness statement show whether there is a payment made from either party within the agreement/contract which would affect any 'loss' calculations. Nor would it show whether the contract includes the necessary authority, required by the BPA CoP, to specifically allow Parking eye to pursue these charges in their own name as creditor in the Courts, and to grant them the standing/assignment of title to make contracts with drivers.




In POPLA case reference 1771073004, POPLA ruled that a witness statement was 'not valid evidence'. This witness statement concerned evidence which could have been produced but was not. So if the operator produces a witness statement mentioning the contract, but does not produce the actual un-redacted contract document, then POPLA should be consistent and rule any such statement invalid.




So I require the unredacted contract for all these stated reasons as I contend the Operator's authority is limited to that of a mere parking agent. I believe it is merely a standard business agreement between Parking eye and their client, which is true of any such business model. This cannot impact upon, nor create a contract with, any driver, as was found in case no. 3JD00517 ParkingEye v Clarke 19th December 2013 (Transcript linked):http://nebula.wsimg.com/0ce354ec6697...essKeyId=4CB8F 2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1






I refer the Adjudicator to the recent Appeal Court decision in the case of Vehicle Control Services (VCS) v HMRC ( EWCA Civ 186 [2013]): The principal issue in this case was to determine the actual nature of Private Parking Charges.




It was stated that, "If those charges are consideration for a supply of goods or services, they will be subject to VAT. If, on the other hand, they are damages they will not be."








The ruling of the Court stated, "I would hold, therefore, that the monies that VCS collected from motorists by enforcement of parking charges were not consideration moving from the landowner in return for the supply of parking services."








In other words, they are not, as the Operator asserts, a contractual term. If they were a contractual term, the Operator would have to provide a VAT invoice, to provide a means of payment at the point of supply, and to account to HMRC for the VAT element of the charge. The Appellant asserts that these requirements have not been met. It must therefore be concluded that the Operator's charges are in fact damages, or penalties, for which the Operator must demonstrate his actual, or pre-estimated losses, as set out above.












4. Failure to adhere to the BPA code of practice.




The signs do not meet the minimum requirements in part 18. They were not clear and intelligible as required.




The BPA Code of Practice states under appendix B, entrance signage:








“The sign must be readable from far enough away so that drivers can take in all the essential text without needing to look more than 10 degrees away from the road ahead.”








For a contract to be formed, one of the many considerations is that there must be adequate signage on entering the car park and throughout the car park. I contend that there is not. Upon returning to the car park after receiving this unjustified 'charge notice' to check the alleged terms at a later date, I had to get out of my car to even read the larger font on the signs, and the smaller font was only readable when standing next to a sign. They were also very brightly coloured but too busy, confusing and unclear. Everything except the 'welcome' heading is too unreadable to be compliant (photo attached).








Furthermore Parking Eye state that:








"The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice"








When with reference to the BCP Code of Practice, it actually states:








"There must be enough colour contrast between the text and its background, each of which should be a single solid colour. The best way to achieve this is to have black text on a white background, or white text on a black background. Combinations such as blue on yellow are not easy to read and may cause problems for drivers with impaired colour vision"












The BPA code of practice dictates that all appeals should be answered within 35 days or a holding letter should be issued. No such letter was received and it took 8 months from appeal to rejection and popla code.






5. ANPR ACCURACY




This Operator is obliged to ensure their ANPR equipment is maintained as described in paragraph 21.3 of the British Parking Association's Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice. I require the Operator to present records as to the dates and times of when the cameras at this car park were checked, adjusted,calibrated, synchronised with the timer which stamps the photos and generally maintained to ensure the accuracy of the dates and times of any ANPR images.This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times. It is vital that this Operator must produce evidence in response to these points and explain to POPLA how their system differs (if at all) from the flawed ANPR system which was wholly responsible for the court loss by the Operator inParkingEye v Fox-Jones on 8 Nov 2013. That case was dismissed when the judge said the evidence form the Operator was 'fundamentally flawed' as the synchronisation of the camera pictures with the timer had been called into question and the operator could not rebut the point.




So, in addition to showing their maintenance records, I require the Operator in this case to show evidence to rebut this point: I suggest that in the case of my vehicle being in this car park, a local camera took the image but a remote server added the time stamp. As the two are disconnected by the internet and do not have a common "time synchronisation system", there is no proof that the time stamp added is actually the exact time of the image. The operator appears to use WIFI which introduces a delay through buffering, so "live" is not really "live". Hence without a synchronised time stamp there is no evidence that the image is ever time stamped with an accurate time. Therefore I contend that this ANPR "evidence" from this Operator in this car park is just as unreliable as the ParkingEye system and I put this Operator to strict proof to the contrary.







I'm not hot on disabilities or any PC stuff that goes with it. If i've put the wrong words just change it


M1

[kellieee]

Re: Parking eye

Just walked in through the door .It took me 3hours and 22 mins to get there .Got there and that duty manager who I spoke to had come off shift .Dunno why but faxing or sending the letters were not good enough he wanted to see my face he said ?????:noidea: . This duty manager I dunno he said something completely different to the first guy and that is they have no power over parking eye but he'll try his best and I'm not to worry ....

[kellieee]

Parking eye fine cancelled

Received letter in the post today the fine is cancelled and there is no outstanding balance.Maybe it was worth driving them 83 miles Saturday before last