Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

[Elle2009]

Hi
I've received a letter from civil enforcement alleging I owe them £140 from outstanding parking charge. However I have not received any previous correspondence about this and therefore have not had a chance to appeal. I have a lease car which is why I may not have received any letter. Any advice would be appreciated
Thanks

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

I ran out of glass cleaner so my crystal ball isn't working so good. Can i see the letter, suitably sanitised ?

M1

[frenchman96]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

That was a rather sarcastic reply was it not

[des8]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

but fun!

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

That was a rather sarcastic reply was it not

Stops me getting bored whilst i wait for some info

Anyway i'm off to bed and will get back to you both tomorrow.

M1

[frenchman96]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

The person who asked the question will not think its fun, they may be very worried.

[ostell]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

So why do people expect an intelligent answer when they haven't asked an intelligent question. things like when where etc would be useful, as well as a copy of the PCN

[frenchman96]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

Because not all people have the same level of intelligence as others, so they should be excused but helped, as I thought this forum, like others, were mainly created to help people.

I amalso very unsure of all the legal and official sounding references to these parking fines as others.

[Elle2009]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

The letter states it is a letter before action. The date of the so called incident is 14-11-14 at a Macdonalds in Gateshead.

As I said in my initial query, I have not received any correspondence about this and I wonder if they have sent something to my lease company (as the car is not registered in my name) which was never forwarded to me. I have therefore never lodged an appeal.

It states the amount owed is £140 and unless they receive payment within 14 days they will "issue proceedings". The letter is not signed, they have included a "draft particulars of claim" and a photocopy of a press summary re: Parking Eye v Beavis.

I appreciate the lack of detail in my initial query and the humour. As for my intelligence (or lack of!) I wasn't aware a PhD was a prerequisite for asking a question on here!

Thanks

[ostell]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

The detail makes this a bit more serious. Edit your post to remove the PCN reference.

This is probably the CEL standard particulars of claim with a secondary sheet with your details. Parking Eye v Beavis does not apply in every case. What is supposed to happen is that CEL initially write to the registered keeper with the claim. They respond with your details and then the claim is sent to you within a limited time frame. You haven't heard from your lease company so there has been no claim made against them (probably). Looks like CEL have made a mess of sending you the initial PCN.

As the keeper there has been no PCN sent to you and therefore they cannot hold you liable, only the driver who they do not know and you do not have to tell them.

Check with your lease company to see if they did receive a PCN for your car at the time that CEL are saying you allegedly "offended".

CEL threaten court cases in the hope that people pay up. If they get pushed to court they have a habit of not turning up in court and so losing, but it's all stress and worry.

You will need to write to CEL telling them that you have insufficient detail and you want copies of the original PCN and any other paperwork that is relevant. Look around here and the PEPIPOO forums to see other instances of CEL and Mr Schwarz

[Elle2009]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

Post edited.
Ok, thanks I will write to them and ask for copies of the paperwork.
Thanks

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

I would contact McDonalds in Gateshead to see if the MANAGER can get it cancelled.

Also I would suggest a response something like :-

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter of xxxxxx the contents of which are noted.

I note that your draft particulars of claim fail to comply with the civil procedure rules. The particulars of claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached. Indeed the particulars of claim are not clear and concise as is required by CPR 16.4 1(a).

In order to comply with the pre action protocols please supply a copy of the signs, a copy of the landowner contract, a copy of any PCN or letter previously sent and other evidence on which you seek to rely. Failure to do so will be raised in court.

I would note that this is the first communication i have ever received in this matter and as such keeper liability does not apply, although i note that your sketchy draft particulars do not claim it does.

Yours sincerely

M1

[R0b]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

Sorry for butting in but just a comment on the £140, whilst the Supreme Court allowed the £85 parking charge in Beavis, that does not give free reign to then start charging a higher amount. £140 parking charge and relying on Beavis is quite dangerous I think. The Court pointed out that a charge becomes penal when it becomes unconscionable and extravagant and charging £140 is in my opinion stepping into that realm of extravagant. They also said that it was commercially justifiable to charge £85 but I cannot see how it is commercially justifiable to charge the sum of £140. From a legal perspective this was bound to happen followng the decision of Beavis where companies such as CEL will gradually start handing out higher and higher charges until a court gives a proper opinion on how much a charge is reasonable and when it is not.

[Elle2009]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

Thanks for the replies.
I will contact McDonald's and also draft a letter. The only details they give in the draft particulars are the date and times of alleged incident, it does not say how the conditions were breached. Is this the standard letter they send?

There is a statement of truth which alleges the facts stated are true which interestingly isn't even signed by Schwartz.

[mystery1]

Re: Civil enforcement ltd charge £140

It's only a draft, the real ones will be signed.
[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION], it's been noted but they are charging £100 plus extra fees for debt collection, letter writing, legal advice blah blah blah. It's unlikely that very many CEL cases will make trial. Some may make it to the trial date but ...

M1