Helping family member with CCJ for 2 x PCN's struggling to post

[Velox59]

Hi I am trying for the 4th time since 10/12 to start a thread for advice.
Can this be seen is it working ??
Previous threads sat as 'unapproved' and now seem to have disappeared in my profile.
Unable also to send an email to admin.
Tks

[Velox59]

Ok so this is now a thread - maybe my previous account of what has been happening has a word count and was to large when I cut and paste it in - this is progress.
Wait to see if its responded to before I progress with the case.

[des8]

Welcome

sorry to read of your difficulty, but seems OK now

Awaiting your further post

[ULA]

Hi Velox59 I am responding to your email to admin. Sorry for the technical issues you have had posting.

To help with the situation I have taken one of the original posts and have copied and pasted it here on this post. It is a long post and we appreciate the background, however for the ease of those advising I have put in a large gap between the background information and the details of the legal issue you are looking for advice on.



Hi - I am representing my 30 yr old daughter. A very long story but here goes.

She is currently in Mental Health Breathing Space - (MHBS) – which is 12 months in duration and due to end in February next year.
Her GP has also written a Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form (DMHEF).

In 2020 (year of COVID) she was living about 2 hrs from our home in Norfolk and a similar distance from family in Warwickshire - isolated. We all followed the rules there was a lack of physical contact, in this time she developed psychosis. We did not know about this illness then. Just that she became distant from the family and avoided family get togethers when restrictions permitted.

Unbeknown to us she lost her job and her room in a rented house and became homeless. She took to living in her car from about October 2020 until December 2021 - all her outstanding PCN's are for this time period and she travelled around a lot in her car.
We did not realise how poorly she had become until I went to see her before Christmas 2020 being concerned due to lack of contact. I then found out she no longer lived at that house.
We had been texting etc prior to this as if all was normal. She did not like my intrusion (discovery) and broke off all contact with family.

On 17th April 2021 unannounced she turned up at Grandparents in the midlands in her car. She was in a real psychotic crisis. After a couple of days, she picked up I persuaded her to go to A & E with me. She was seen by the psych team and presented well. They referred her back to her GP and asked her to engage with the intervention team.
Later that evening she got in her car and drove off and we did not see her until 2024. The police treated her as a missing person. She was stopped in her car, again presented ok and was let on her way as no immediate concern for welfare.

In December 2021 she moved into a house share in West London and was doing ok working etc again.

December 2023, she started reaching out to her Mum and her brother it was clear she was paranoid and acting strange. It went on for several months. She was referred by others close to her in London to the local authority MH crisis team. She would not voluntarily engage with mental health services. Everyone was served evictions in the house share generally due to her illness . In June 2024 she was sectioned in a London Hospital under sec 2 MHA for 28 days and then for a few weeks on section 3.
After this into supported accommodation and the care of the local Mental Health intervention team. They were made aware of the parking tickets and debts which they said they would help with as they add to poor MH. I scheduled all that I knew and sent the support team the details.
Unfortunately, things were not good with the support she was getting there and again there was no family support. She agreed to move to our home town in the Midlands, not a quick simple process in itself. She stayed with relatives and registered with a local GP.
(We tried to keep the address secret to prevent debt demands and if a bailiff had turned up she would have been potentially asked to move out. I used my home address in correspondence.

She is now on sec 117 aftercare near our home town in the midlands and the MH intervention team there are amazing. She will be under their supervision for 3 years.
She has been referred by a psychologist as being on the spectrum. She is very clever but goes about some things a bit different to others.


I contacted the MH team in west London to ask what progress they had made with her debts and found they had done nothing with my information. I started the process again with her new intervention team and they helped us get the MHBS. (this took nearly 3 months).

There were a lot of debts, utilities, council tax at her former address and council penalty notices etc. This all overwhelms her and she has consented to me helping her. We have paid off quite a few and others have been dropped after many letters.
Whilst living in London she was visited at least 3 times by bailiffs. Those PCNs are now all shown as zero on the council sites. I assume because she had no money or nothing of value they were written off. When bailiffs did attend they put control orders on her car (value less than £1,000 at the time). However this was later stolen (January 2024), from another car park after it broke down. At that time she was again quite poorly she could not deal with it I reported to local police crime report refers.

When she was sectioned, I stored all her belongings and when she was well enough around September 2024 she let me go through it with her after she moved to the midlands. It took some time to separate into cases with different amounts of correspondence, or none whatsoever.

She had never changed her address with DVLA when she became homeless because she was of no fixed abode (NFA). She told me and I can verify that the DVLA will not allow you to update an address to NFA. Hence all correspondence was sent to an old address.
If you get a new address it asks for dates and if you put NFA because you were for a certain time, its not acceptable to the software and the update is rejected. I got around this more recently for her licence by fudging the dates so NFA did not feature and again putting my address with her.
With her and I think it's the ASD things are literal and she struggles to work around such problems, so the solution is to leave it.
In the past for other matters debt collectors traced her to her new west London address the PCN's were months old. There have been constant letters of demand from all companies never any evidence.
Charges added for noncompliance and this did not help her MH as things got worse.


She is doing well now it's a slow progression. She has her own place for the fist time with a housing association. She receives social support but works now 2 days a week. On medication daily and gets career support. Heading in the right direction.
However, relapse is always a worry and getting rid of these debts will help continued recovery.










After going through her paperwork I was aware of 11 PCNs. By the end of November 2024 this had increased to 32 PCN’s along with other debts such as CTAX and utilities.
Initially I engaged on her behalf with National Debt Line but we were in the early stages of recovery budgeting was impossible and I don't think they really understood about MH.
When she was given MHBS in February 2025 she was appointed an advisor but they did not have capacity to help resolve the debts. I was advised to try Citizens Advice Bureau.
Again, more paperwork and we had an advisor for a short time. CAB could not manage the debts on her behalf but I got some guidance about writing to debt companies.
That advisor left so I have carried on myself writing letters and emails.

I am struggling though with two debt collection agencies the first is DCBL/DCB Legal the second is DRPL.

I will deal with DCBL first as it gets very complicated and there is a judgement.
DCBL Debt Collection Bailiffs Ltd and then DCB Legal. They have obtained two CCJ’s for two matters issued by the Northampton court on 15/11/24.
Originally there were 5 PCN’s with DCBL. (DCB Legal dropped two matters eventually even though one was over 6 years old).
This left the following PCN’S
27/04/20 The Range, Watford (was paid by me 21/11/24)
11/10/20 The Range, Watford CCJ matter
06/04/21 Novotel, Stevenage CCJ matter
I had several demands from DCBL for both of The Range matters. I had only one brief mention of the matter at the Novotel, Stevenage.

I now know that DCBL and DCB Legal are two sister companies. Their letterheads are virtually the same. They operate out of the same building in Runcorn, Cheshire.
DCB Legal are the litigation side.

I had set up redirection on my daughter's former address in west London because of the debts and bills. This delayed post and also in the early days of her treatment I could only open post in her presence and I had to be mindful of the stress it caused.
I have told all debt companies to use my home address as a point of contact address.

About 30th October 2024 (6 weeks after moving to the midlands and she let me help her) DCBL wrote (dated 29/10/24) having traced her to the address she was staying at with family. Demanding £170 for the first matter – 1. 27/04/20 The Range, Watford.

I also received about the same time on redirection to me a Claim form from the Civil National Business Centre issued 23/10/24 for £548.44 stating this must be responded to within 14 days.
I think the letter was opened with her on 2nd November 2024.

The particulars of the claim were poorly made out and caused me real confusion, it read
“Particlualrs of the claim
The Defendant (D) is indebted to the Claimant C for a Parking Charge(s) issued to vehicle ABC123D at The Range Watford.
The PCN(s) were issued on 11/10/2020, 06/04/2021.
The defendant is pursued as the driver of the vehicle for breach of the terms on the signs(the contract). Etc etc...
I think blimey… she got another ticket at The Range, Watford on the 06/04/21 (making 3 in total at that location) and that’s the same day she got a ticket at the Novotel, Stevenage (as referred to as number 3 above).

On the 5th November 2025 I wrote a lengthy letter to DCBL based on their letter dated 29th October 2025 they sent to temporary address and referred to the claim form dated 23/10/24 sent to her old address and redirected.
I pointed out she was vulnerable. Provided consent to deal on her behalf.
Queried the four or six matters I thought I was aware of with DCBL and my confusion over two matters on 06/04/21 as it read on the claim it was The Range Watford no mention of the Novotel Stevenage.

After 7th November 2024 I received a letter back from DCBL (their letter dated 7/11/24).
They state they received my letter dated 5th November on 6th November 2024.
Their letter seemed rushed, misspelling of our surname and not addressing my questions.
They said they attempted to email me on my email provided in my letter but their email was returned undeliverable – my email address was correct. I also had provided my mobile number.
They informed me one matter had been passed to their “sister company” DCB Legal (the historic matter from 2018). Gave me DCB Legals telephone number and email.
They DCBL were instructed by Parking Eye to recover the outstanding balance for PCN+++++++ (The Range Watford 27/04/20).
There was no mention of the other matter(s) at The Range, Watford or the other matters in particular the matter at the Novotel, Stevenage or the court claim form even though I asked about it.
I was even more confused and shocked when I Google’d DCB Legal to see they were a separate company in the same building as DCBL, don’t they talk to each other (don’t answer that one)

On the 11th November 2024 I re wrote to DCB Legal all over again but a little bit more aware of the set up. I pointed out I had no evidence regarding the allegations. I asked them if west London MH crisis team had been in touch.

I returned the court claim to the court but by now it was right on the 14 day limit. It was looking for me to make an admission in the claim form but we had no evidence so intentionally left that blank so as not to incriminate her.

15/11/24 the court at the National Business Centre sent me the judgement for the two matters on redirection of her post. The cost was now £571.98.

21/11/24 I paid the PCN at 1. 27/04/20 at The Range Watford.
21/11/24 I wrote to the court about the circumstances.
26/11/24 Received a letter from the court suggesting I complete a form N244 if I dispute the judgment. There was a £303.00 fee but might be eligible for help with court fees. I made that application for aid and received a reference number but have not taken the application forwards – I had other matters more pressing with the debts.

27/11/24 having not heard back from DCB Legal I emailed them and re attached my letter of 11/11/24. Automatic receipt received.
Later that morning I received a letter on redirection for my daughter old address telling me about the judgement and the need to pay it.
DCB Legals new reference number, another one. That it had to be paid by 15/12/24 or it will be passed back to DCBL for bailiff action. Signed head of litigation, no contact name.
This told me that no one had read my correspondence or email and nothing had been passed on internally.

01/12/24 emailed DCB Legal attention head of litigation . Told them the circumstances again, her vulnerability, my address for contact and a copy of her DMHEF signed by her GP.

20/12/24 Received a letter from DCB Legal dated 20/12/24.
Basically it acknowledged my correspondence relating to 4 x PCN’s this letter was dealing with the judgement.
Please note, due to no response being received in relation to the Claim, the Claimant was at liberty to enter Judgment against the Defendant. The County Court Judgment was requested on 15/11/2024, prior to receipt of your letter. The Judgment was entered by the Court on 15/11/24.
Both DCB Legal and our client sympathise with the Defendants circumstances, however our client has only taken the appropriate steps to recover a legally owed debt. Had the Defendant mitigated in the circumstances, alternative action could have been taken. Nonethless, the Judgement has been correctly issued against the Defendant.
It is our client's position that the Judgement has now determined the Defendants liability in this matter and therefore we will no longer be responding to any disputes.

They then clarified the matters of the Judgement were
2. 11/10/20 The Range Watford.
3. 06/04/21 Novotel Stevenage
As I suspected.

Confirmed they had no contact from National Debt Line or MH Crisis Team in London.
Signed no name just DCB Legal Ltd”. Acknowledge she is vulnerable.

As you can imagine very frustrated that I tried to act as quickly as I could but DCBL and DCB Legal frustrated my engagement.

07/01/25 – email from DCB Legal quoting a new reference number not known to me.
“Dear ++++++++++++,

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office 03/12/2024 & 19/12/2024.

We now respond to the same as follows.

Upon review of the information/evidence provided, DCB Legal will close your case and no further action will be taken by our office.
Signed (author name given) ”

08/01/25 emailed the author of this email to clarify what had been NFA’d as used another new reference. It was the historic PCN from 2018 and one from 16/05/21 in Lancaster.

24/01/25 emailed DCB Legal point of contact again for some advice what to do next and never received a reply.

03/03/2005 emailed the DCB Legal point of contact again and told them I still had no evidence of the matters taken to court and asked them for this. That my daughter was now in MHBS and sent them a copy of that.
I received no reply back.

03/03/25 emailed the court to inform them that daughter now in MHBS.
31/03/25 court emailed me back to say I was not the party to the judgement
20/05/25 emailed the court with letter of consent from my daughter.
12/06/25 court emailed me back acknowledgement of my interest and a link to advice of how to proceed.

I have not progressed this until now due to my time taken up with another debt collection agency.

In the meantime I found images on the Parkingeye website of the two matters at The Range and the Novotel. I had never thought to look at this before and DCBL ignored my requests for the evidence or suggested it.
Regarding the matter 11/10/20 The Range Watford – it showed her vehicle arrived at 0921hrs and left at 0944hrs ie 22 minutes.
It was a Sunday and the store I don’t think was open.
On Google Streetview I can make out a sign saying parking permitted for 2hrs. I don’t even know if the store was operating at that location as it was pulled down sometime afterwards. (found an article in the Watford Observer).

Regarding the matter 06/04/21 at the Novotel – it shows her vehicle arrived at 1852hrs and left at 2012hrs ie 1hr 19mins.

20/11/25 I wrote to Parkingeye the clients of DCB / Legal and explained the circumstances and asked if they could withdraw the matters.
I asked them about the parking terms and conditions at both venues.

26/11/25 I received two letters from Parkineye. In both they said they the matter had been passed to DCBL and could not appeal. Any correspondence in relation to the matter should be directed to DCBL and gave their web link and telephone number.

My thoughts:

The court claim application was not accurate it only specified one venue and was misleading that it was just The Range, no mention of Novotel and this delayed me understanding the nature of the allegations.
The way DCBL and DCB Legal have handled my correspondence is poor they could have prevented the court action particularly after my first letter on 5th November 2024 which they acknowledge they received 06/11/24. They claim they tried to email me but that can not be true, they could have phoned me, they obviously thought it was important enough to try and email me.
On one hand they accept medical evidence that she was not well and withdraw one ticket (or two) but say that is too late with regards the judgement.
In the case of The Range 11/10/20 being in the car park for 22 mins, was the store even open with a possible parking duration of 2 hours, what is the breach of contract its not clear.
In the case of Novotel on 06/04/21 again the terms of parking are not known. I have read from open source that guests should register in the reception. She tells me she went to ask for a room for the night; she was quite ill at that time. There was no room she did not stay (more to this another time).

These matters with DCBL and with DRPL (which is a separate story and involves 20 other matters) were committed between October 2020 (Covid year) when she first got ill was homeless and no job. Until December 2021 when she found a new home and work.
There is medical evidence regarding her state of mind and she did not have capacity due to her illness to take in what was going on around her.
Note the matter at the Novotel was 11 days before she arrived turned up in the Midlands on 17/04/21 in a psychotic state in what I can only describe as a trance and I took her to hospital for assessment.

I have read quite a few different threads re SAR, CPR 31.14. correct route
Request for set aside of matter – read about this.
Is this a case the court could use its discretion.
Is this a case where mental capacity is a defence.

Cant find any threads quite like these circumstances.

[ULA]

tag des8

[des8]

So you have learnt the hard way that Parking Companies and their lackies will show no sympathy for their victims.
It should be of no surprise that the British Parking Association's response to a consultation on the MHBS was completely negative.

If your daughter lacks capacity to act for herself, you need to apply to the courts to be appointed her litigation friend (https://www.gov.uk/litigation-friend/apply)

Regarding those cases where a judgment has already been awarded, you need to apply for "set aside".
The cost is reduced to £123 if the other side consent .... so write asking for their consent within 7 days of your request.
Set aside applications need to be made promptly.
If set aside is granted you get the chance to defend the case


ParkingEye were being duplicitous. They employ DCBL and DCB Legal and can instruct them to cease pursuing the charges. Any court claim will be in the name of PE, who can discontinue the case at any time.

DCBL can be ignored. They are only debt collectors and have no power at all
DCB Legal are solicitors and should not be ignored, although this does not mean their letters cannot be disputed.

I suppose your daughter (the registered keeper?) has been identified as the driver which makes it more difficult (but not necessarily impossible) to defend individual claims.
The court claims will all be for "breach of contract" and it may also be possible to enter a defence under the 2005 Mental Capacity Act if it can be shown your daughter would not have understood the nature and consequences of the parking signs

As soon as official Court Claim papers are received, you should send CPR31.14 to the solicitors concerned and a SAR to the Parking Company.
The requests need to include sight of the contract between parking co. and land owner, parking signs, PCN/NTK.

Without seeing the individual paperwork for each case, and dealing with each one separately this thread is going to become very confusing!

[Velox59]

Morning - ok thankyou for all that, I'm digesting and looking at the forms, some questions will follow.

[Velox59]

Yes it can all get confusing -
Capacity - yes was lacking capacity back in crisis then and struggles now. .
Now a lot better but things like this will overwhelm her because they are a long haul, the next step after MHBS ends will could be bailiffs that will not be good.

In the GP's DMHEF the doctor records that she "struggles to communicate and avoids it as it make her stressed out".

So I'm working my way through the litigation forms and taking in the link you provided - tks.
Questions will follow shortly.

Fee - The court told me it was £303.00 for a set aside application. They pointed me to www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees. Did that way back and got the "HwF" reference number. I will put that on the application.
I have prepared a letter to DCB Legal asking them for their consent for the fee to be reduced to £123.00 as you suggest. Not sure how that works or is conveyed to the court but I'm ready to send that letter.

Yes she was the registered keeper. I have never formerly identified her as the driver on her behalf and I understand she has never identified herself..
As we have never seen the NTK (s) we have never seen the evidence, terms and conditions. I now have these images from PE site, you can not identify the driver in either matter.

I think though for one ticket she was provably the driver at the time. For the other she has a recollection of the visit and from what she has recanted to me she was in psychosis did not know what she was doing so yes lacked capacity strongly on that day.
Do we communicate that evidence in a statement at some stage with the set aside application ?. Ive been thinking about such a statement.

Things will be inevitably be slow over the Christmas period.
Thanks.

[des8]

First of all, bailiffs will not call unless the matters go to court, she loses and then fails to pay the judgment award. A long way away at the moment!

DCBLegal should respond within the week directly to you regarding consent to setaside.

Regarding the driver at the time, I assume the claim forms nominate your sister as "the driver or the keeper"
If they cannot identify her as the driver, it becomes more difficult for them to win their claim against her as the keeper, as often the parking companies make mistakes in their Notice to Keeper. (although PE are the exception there!)
Was anybody else named on her insurance as a driver?
In any case , at this stage I would not identify her as the driver as she cannot be positive either way.

Best wishes for a good Christmas and a better New Year

[Velox59]

Briefly - yes got that if we go down the set aside route until that is resolved either way then she will not get bailiffs round.

Okay Ill get the letter off to DCB Legal tomorrow

Claim form says "The defendant is pursued as the driver of the vehicle for breach of the terms.... etc" - attached copy of claim form.

She thinks I might have been insured on her car as the driver, at the time of these PCN's (2020 & 2021) I was not aware I was named as a driver on her policy.
Recalls visiting one venue but not the other.
Will not identify her as driver at this time.

Thanks, likewise - pick this up after Christmas. DCB Legal claim form REDACTED 2.pdf

[PallasAthena]

The claim also says "4. In the alternative the defendant is pursued as the keeper...". So DCBL are hedging their bets and the driver may not have been disclosed. So don't do so now.

She thinks I might have been insured on her car as the driver, at the time of these PCN's (2020 & 2021) I was not aware I was named as a driver on her policy

It's not relevant to this claim. DCBL can't base a claim for driver liability on who was an insured named driver who could hypothetically have been driving at the time. In any case neither PE nor DCBL have access to the national motor insurance databse that would let them find out who is a named driver (let alone who was named five years ago) so they have no idea who was an insured named driver.

[des8]

Could you repost that claim form shewing who the legal representative was?

No rush, but it might provide another line of defence.

[Velox59]

Yes noted what is in para 4 of the claim re keeper.

Re posting the claim form and re- scanned.

If your referring to the "Claimants Legal Representative" I have read your post on a thread by A4BZ and the case of:

case Julia Mazur & Ors v Charles Russell Speechlys LLP [2025] and asked that member on their thread if they have got to the bottom of that representatives status.

Thanks.

[des8]

The "Mazur" case is being appealed (hearing in February?) so the position should be clearer by the time your sisters cases reach the hearing stage

[Velox59]

Just to update. I sent the Letter to DCB Legal with Certificate of Posting on 24/12/25 asking for consent to set aside. Kept an eye on tracking for delivery, due to Christmas break, but no updates since dropping the letter at the Post Office.
I have a number to call the Post Office which I will do today to try and track if it has or has not been delivered....

Made a start on N244, draft order, witness statement for my daughter and one from me as Dad, career, my interactions with DCBL.