Letter Before Claim - Gladstones

[SWBOB]

After just last week having success in court against BW Legal I received this letter before claim from Gladstones. In the past I have ignored things but would prefer it getting to the point of having to defend it in court again.

This is also the first (of 2) times my vehicle has been picked up in a service station.

Unfortunately i have lost the original NTK that this letter relates to. However this is an identical one for the same alleged breach on a different date, hence redacting the dates. I have posted it as an example of the wording. I don't have the original document to see the other side but could get that through a SAR for which there is not time at least prior to the deadline of this letter.

So whilst i have some experience of writing car park related defences i do not have any experience of responding to Letters before claim or potentially defending a service station overstay.

Other information: This is a leased vehicle.

Thank you in advance.

[charitynjw]

After just last week having success in court against BW Legal I received this letter before claim from Gladstones. In the past I have ignored things but would prefer it getting to the point of having to defend it in court again.

This is also the first (of 2) times my vehicle has been picked up in a service station.

Unfortunately i have lost the original NTK that this letter relates to. However this is an identical one for the same alleged breach on a different date, hence redacting the dates. I have posted it as an example of the wording. I don't have the original document to see the other side but could get that through a SAR for which there is not time at least prior to the deadline of this letter.

So whilst i have some experience of writing car park related defences i do not have any experience of responding to Letters before claim or potentially defending a service station overstay.

Other information: This is a leased vehicle.

Thank you in advance.

Pmsl

You're going to be an expert pretty soon!

It would be good to know the date of issue on the NtK (Ie date when it was sent)
& to clarify, was there a windscreen notice, or was it ANPR?

[SWBOB]

Thanks.

I don't have the original NTK, have just had another look. I tend to scan everything and then shred but it's not in the shredding pile.
Do you want the date of the NTK above it doesnt relate to the letter before claim?

Also this was ANPR.

[charitynjw]

Do you want the date of the NTK above it doesnt relate to the letter before claim?
It has to be from the NtK sent to you.
We need to check dates & other stuff on it

Also this was ANPR.

####

[SWBOB]

Does this show everything you need?

This is a NTK sent to me but not the one that refers to the alleged breach for which Gladstone have sent the above letter.

[charitynjw]

Does this show everything you need?

This is a NTK sent to me but not the one that refers to the alleged breach for which Gladstone have sent the above letter.

I doubt the 2 have exactly the same wording.
The one that you've posted is CPP.
Gladrags are banging on about UKPS.

[SWBOB]

Oh yeah. How dumb of me. I didn't even pick that up, just read Exeter. I know what this is about now. I definitely don't have the NTK for this one then. I know though that the letter is referring to a private pay and display car park.

In which case i know i can complete a subject access request with UKPS and Gladrags but i have 14 days left to respond to the letter. Please could i get some advice on how to respond whilst i am waiting for my SAR to come through?

Thanks

[charitynjw]

Other information: This is a leased vehicle.

Has the lease company contacted you?
They normally do, as they usually charge an admin fee.
Btw, what does the lease agreement/contract state about such incidents? (Exact wording, please.)

[ostell]

That CPPlus NTK does not comply with POFA and so ther can be no keeper liability anyway. Assuming no windscreen ticket then failure to give the invitation required by 9 (2) (e) and the warning required by 9 (2) (f)

OK if this is a lease vehicle then did you also receive any additional paperwork with the NTK(s)? Probably not, they usually don't bother so they have also failed to comply with 14 (2) (a) in that they have failed to supply the required documents. These POFA fails mean that they cannot claim from the keeper /hirer at the time but only the unnamed driver

Put it to Gladstones that you have no liability in this matter and suggest they return the matter to their client as to continue in the certainty that that they would lose would be vexatious and open them to all your costs.

Write to the parking companies themselves point out the failings and that the only outcome would be more costs to them.

[SWBOB]

Thank you both.

In response to each, i will call and get the lease agreement for this tomorrow when i return to work. I will also need to check my emails as i would have received this via the lease company first who themselves requested payment. I subsequently asked them just to get them to send it directly. I will check how i worded that and request any communication between the leasing company and the car parking management companies.

Regarding the additional paperwork, I have never received any additional paperwork alongside any NTKs since driving a leased vehicle.

Once i have this information i will follow your advice. Many Thanks

[charitynjw]

Thank you both.

In response to each, i will call and get the lease agreement for this tomorrow when i return to work. I will also need to check my emails as i would have received this via the lease company first who themselves requested payment. I subsequently asked them just to get them to send it directly. I will check how i worded that and request any communication between the leasing company and the car parking management companies.

Regarding the additional paperwork, I have never received any additional paperwork alongside any NTKs since driving a leased vehicle.

Once i have this information i will follow your advice. Many Thanks

Do let us know the exact wording in the agreement re admin charges etc for contraventions.
& Don't pay any invoice for same just yet.

[ostell]

If this had been the first appeal stage I would have suggested this:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the hirer/keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to supply the additional documents mandated by section 14 (2) (a) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me, the hirer keeper..

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.

But as you are at the LBC stage then you can get the idea, including those other points that I mentioned.

[SWBOB]

Hi All again

Apologies ostell i either didnt see your last post before sending off my response to Gladrags or became a little stressed and forgot.

I did send off the following email:

Dear Sirs

UKPS Limited
Proposed Legal Proceedings

Thank you for your letter of 5 April 2019.
First, the alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

Secondly, you letter fails to comply with the practice direction on pre-action conduct. Undoubtedly it fall woefully short of the requirements.

Please therefore provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...action_conduct

I confirm that I shall then seek advice and submit a formal Response within 30 days of receipt, as required by the Practice Direction.

Please ensure that someone does actually read and respond to this letter, providing the specific information relating to the county court claim that your client intends to make against myself as the defendant to the proposed legal proceedings. Please DO NOT send a generic FAQ letter in reply as to do so does not meet the requirements of the Practice Direction and will take this matter no further forward.

Please note, a refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in an immediate referral to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for breach of the Principles contained in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.

I trust this will not be necessary, and look forward to receiving a fully compliant letter before claim in due course.

Yours faithfully


I have in response to this received a pre-action bundle. The bundle is inadequate in that it does not contain the contract of authority, the pictures are about 12 to a page of A4 and so unreadable in terms of any text content and the signs are all just graphics taken from a computer. There is one photo of a sign that is unreadable.

Whilst i do not have the original NTK I have attached redacted copies of the ones they have sent me. These match the one sent via the leasing company.

Other information:
1. I have not named the driver or accepted any liability

2. This is a lease car through my company. I have checked the Driving for work policy, but cant seem to get a copy of the lease agreement as it is between my employer and the lease company. The Driving for work policy refers only briefly to paying parking fines and other vehicle related penalties. Since this is legally neither of those (it's an invoice) I cant find anything relating to private parking "contracts".

3. I did pay for a ticket/permit (as visible in the windscreen) and the PCN was issued 12 minutes after it expired. I still have the ticket :-)

4. My partner is disabled. Her condition effects her without warning and during an episode would prevent her from going anywhere until she has had a chance to recover/return to a state in which she is capable of moving or travelling again. ie. Had she been the driver or had she been with the driver then this is likely to have been the cause of the delay in returning to the vehicle. She has ample medical evidence of her disability.

Would anyone be able to let me know whether this NTK is PoFA compliant and does anyone have any advice on how to respond to the updated letter before action with bullshit bundle attached? Thank you again in advance.

[charitynjw]

Both NtKs shown seem to refer to the same alleged contravention time/date?

Or is the 2nd one just a reminder?

[SWBOB]

Both NtKs shown seem to refer to the same alleged contravention time/date?

Or is the 2nd one just a reminder?

I believe the second is the reminder. This is what i was sent in their 'bundle'.