Should I appeal this PCN?

[Jim Rogers]

Ok, yesterday a car was parked in a private car park (not Parking Eye managed) while some people visited the cinema.

A ticket was bought for 3 hours expecting the film to be finished by the time the ticket would expire.

However, the film finished 20 minutes after the ticket had expired.

By the time we got back to the car (25 minutes after the ticket had expired) we had a Parking Charge notice on the car that is asking for £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

Should anyone pay the £60 or appeal saying that the £100 fine is excessive and does not reflect a genuine pre-estimate of loss?

The parking company is a member of the Independant Parking Committee.

Thanks for any help.

[charitynjw]

Re: Should I appeal this PCN?

Hi

Could you edit your post?
Never ID the driver......."The driver parked.....", etc.

Have you tried speaking to the cinema management to see if they can intercede?

Should I pay the £60 or appeal saying that the £100 fine is excessive and does not reflect a genuine pre-estimate of loss?

GPEOL is tough to argue since the 2015 Beavis/ParkingEye court case.
Post up a copy of the windscreen PCN, the postal Notice to Keeper when received* (front & rear, obscure personal details, leave all times/dates visible) & pics of site signage.

Do not pay until you get the NtK.
Do you live in England/Wales?

*NtK should arrive between 29-56 days after the parking incident.

[Jim Rogers]

Re: Should I appeal this PCN?

It wasn't the cinema car park

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Do not pay until you get the NtK.

*NtK should arrive between 29-56 days after the parking incident.

By then the amount will be £100 to pay

[ostell]

Re: Should I appeal this PCN?

Edit you post so that the identity of the driver cannot be inferred. There seems to be a choice of car parks there. Sten nack Car Park would seem too generic to identify the location. I presume that the name of the area. Could it be similar to saying "London Car park"? I note there are other car parks in the area.

The reason for waiting is to see if Armtrac get the NTK wrong, not unknown, and therefore cannot claim against the keeper, only the driver who they do not know. Hence the request to edit.

Plan B is to appeal as the keeper so that the appeal arrives about day 26. As they now know the name of the keeper they don't access the DVLA it saves them money) and there can be no keeper liability if they do not get keeper details from the DVLA and they have not issued a NTK.

[Jim Rogers]

Re: Should I appeal this PCN?

Hope these help

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Another sign

[des8]

Re: Should I appeal this PCN?

Further to @ostell the PCN "must specify the vehicle, the relevant land and the period of parking" (POFA 2012 Schedule 4 (2) (a)



one out of three ain't bad, so what chance of them getting the NTK right?


Additionally the notice must identify the creditor... this does not appear to do so!

[Jim Rogers]

Re: Should I appeal this PCN?

Another sign

[Jim Rogers]

Ok, the notice to keeper arrived in the post today,
What should be done next please?

[Jim Rogers]

Notice to keeper

[des8]

I'm sure ostell &/or charitynjw will be along to advise what to do (or not)
Interestingly that is not a compliant notice to keeper for the purpose of POFA, so is basically an invite for you to pay or name the driver, neither of which you need to do.
also they did not obtain your name & address from DVLA as post 4 if you appealed

[ostell]

Des8 is correct, the NTK is missing POFA 9 (2) (f) and possibly other items.

So a simple BOGOFF response.

I am the keeper of vehicle xxxx and am in receipt of your Notice to Keeper xxxxx

The NTK fails to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, section 8 (2) (f) in that a warning to the keeper has not been made. I agree with you that the the driver is liable for this charge but I, as the keeper, can not be held liable for the actions of the driver at the time. There is no legal duty to identify the driver and I will not be doing so. I have, as requested, passed your NTK to the driver and they may contact you about this matter. Consequently I do not expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that no further action will be taken against me on the matter.

[des8]

But don't send it until 56 days from the date of the parking event have passed, as you don't want them to issue a compliant NTK within the time allowed

[Jim Rogers]

Thank you,
No appeal was made and the 56 days since the ticket was issued is next Saturday 17th Feb.

[ostell]

Send it so that it arrives on Friday 16th, get proof of posting from the post office. This is so they can't claim you didn't appeal in time. They cannot then deliver a corrected NTK to you in the relevant time.

[Jim Rogers]

I did post them a letter stating:

I am the keeper of vehicle xxxx and am in receipt of your Notice to Keeper xxxxx

The NTK fails to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, section 8 (2) (f) in that a warning to the keeper has not been made. I agree with you that the the driver is liable for this charge but I, as the keeper, can not be held liable for the actions of the driver at the time. There is no legal duty to identify the driver and I will not be doing so. I have, as requested, passed your NTK to the driver and they may contact you about this matter. Consequently I do not expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that no further action will be taken against me on the matter.

Received a letter back from them, I went to the website to view the photographic evidence but it's nowhere to be found!