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PCN Tesco Hithen Green

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  • PCN Tesco Hithen Green

    Hi,

    Looking for some advice. The driver recently parked by a local Tesco Express, it is located on a recently developed house site:

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/uv?hl=...CakQpx8IigEwCg

    The parking restrictions have only recently been put into place, no ticket was left on the car but a letter has arrived at the registered car address. It says they obtained the address from the DVLA. The letter shows a photo of the car but not the registration and the photo does not clearly identify the vehicle. The parking condition notice is on a central reservation and not on the kerb side.

    Is this worth me challenging?

    Thanks in advance,

    Joe.
    Last edited by spacebiscuit; 24th October 2017, 12:32:PM. Reason: Correction
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

    Hi & welcome to LB

    Could you post up a picture of the notice you've received? (Front & rear, obscure personal details but leave all times/dates visible).
    Also site signs if possible.
    Is the vehicle leased? HP? PCP?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

      Remove the hint about who was driving from your first post. Have you asked the store to cancel?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

        Hi,

        Thanks for the replies. As requested I am attaching the front and rear scans of the letter received.

        I can get a photo of the site sign tomorrow if required.

        The car is privately owned.

        I've not asked the supermarket to cancel as yet.

        Thanks,

        Joe.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by spacebiscuit; 24th October 2017, 19:28:PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

          So get asking the supermarkey AND modify the first post as requested. It's easier to defend as the keeper so don't give them who was driving.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

            Thanks have edited the post. It is not clear to me though the implications of saying who parked the car. Also I am not sure the supermarket will have any say as I think the restrictions are to protect the interests of the residents. Will try and get a photo of the sign today.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

              As @ostell has suggested (twice now), edit your first post to "The driver recently parked.....".

              Imho the NtK, apart from no vehicle ID re the photo, also fails to specifically state the actual period of parking.
              There is only a vague reference to a 'a period that immediately preceded....'.

              See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted
              Para #9(2)
              "The notice must
              (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

              IPC only give you 21 days from service (delivery) of the NtK to appeal to the parking co.
              Parking co's, & in particular IPC co's, are notorious for rejecting appeals whether the appeal has merit or not.
              So it's not worth going into detail.

              If it were me, I'd write to them & just say
              "I reject your recent Notice to Keeper as it is not compliant with Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
              Remove my details from your database, as your continued use breaches my rights under the Data Protection Act 1998.
              Alternatively please provide, by return post, details of your trade assn's appeal process."

              Or pay

              Or ignore. (UKCPM have taken about 170 people to court this year).
              CAVEAT LECTOR

              This is only my opinion - "
              Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
              Cohen, Herb

              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
              gets his brain a-going.
              Phelps, C. C.

              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
              The last words of John Sedgwick

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                Take down the PCN and repost after taking out details like your name and PCN number.

                The reason for keeping the driver details hidden is that they have to jump through several hoops to make the keeper liable. If they know the driver then there is no problems in taking it further, even to court. The PPCs are known to print out threads from forums to show who was driving.

                Here is POFA, the legislation that allows the keeper to be held liable. In your case paragraph 9 is the one to concentrate on. Everything that is in the paragraph must be included in the NTK. As Charity pointed out the period of parking leaves a lot to be desired. They keep insisting that you agreed to a contract. This is completely wrong, it was the driver that agreed to the contract. The pictures could have been taken anywhere, no parking sign appears in the photos. Please get some photos of the signs, I suspect they may help you.

                You respond as the keeper stating that they have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA to hold you, as the keeper, liable for any charges incurred by the driver. you will not be naming the driver and there is no requirement in law to do so. You do not expect to here from them again other than to confirm that there will be no further action against you.

                Edit: Were you parked at the side of the road or in the central reservation? It is reasonable to assume that the signs are for the parking spaces in the centre of the road. There are no signs that could apply to the side of the road. As the signs are parallel to the road it would be deemed impossible to read them as you are driving past. You can therefore park without actually seeing the details of a sign. Have you checked if the road is adopted by the local council? The location of the "car park", not that it is, does it actually define the location and you could locate the position if you were a stranger.
                Last edited by ostell; 24th October 2017, 09:34:AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                  Please see the attahced photos which show the location of the signs (arrows) and where the car was parked (green box). The second photo shows the marking in the space 'GRE' - whatever that is!

                  The wording of the sign is as follows:

                  A valid UK CPM permit must be clearly diplayed at the front windscreen at all times
                  You must park wholly within a marked bay. No parking on roadways / yellow lines / pathed / hatched or landscaped areas
                  If unsure please seek further advice from CPM or refrain form parking

                  So in answer to the previous questions:

                  Were you parked at the side of the road or in the central reservation?
                  - side of the road not the cntral reservation

                  It is reasonable to assume that the signs are for the parking spaces in the centre of the road. There are no signs that could apply to the side of the road.
                  - correct

                  Does this help my case?
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                    There is also a Meridian South in Leicester.

                    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Meridian+S,+Leicester+LE19/@52.6019759,-1.1924533,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x48775df9928ff579:0x3e46c 2558c3b2738!8m2!3d52.6019759!4d-1.1902593


                    https://www.streetcheck.co.uk/postcode/le191wy

                    So the NtK is also defective because it fails to identify the exact location.
                    (See post #7 & PoFA link).
                    The wording is
                    The notice must
                    (a) specify......etc

                    specify



                    VERB

                    [WITH OBJECT]
                    • 1Identify clearly and definitely.
                      ‘the coup leader promised an election but did not specify a date’


                      More example sentences

                      Synonyms

                      • 1.1with clause State a fact or requirement clearly and precisely.‘the agency failed to specify that the workers were not their employees’


                    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/specify
                    Last edited by charitynjw; 25th October 2017, 05:34:AM.
                    CAVEAT LECTOR

                    This is only my opinion - "
                    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                    Cohen, Herb

                    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                    gets his brain a-going.
                    Phelps, C. C.

                    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                    The last words of John Sedgwick

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                      Thanks - so I will reply in writing with my argument being the following:

                      The NtK fails to specify the period of parking to which the notice applies
                      The NtK fails to specify the relevant land (since there are two Meridan Souths and therefore location is not exact)

                      I should state that I am the owner but was not the driver and I will not reveal this information. I should ask them to remove my details from their database as it breaches my rights under the Data Protection Act 1998.

                      Should I mention that the photo fails to identify the vehicle and note the signs are on the central reservation and not the curbside or is this subjective?

                      In pointing out the above errors in the notice does not simply allow them to raise another notice?

                      Out

                      Thanks again.

                      J.
                      Last edited by spacebiscuit; 25th October 2017, 22:56:PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                        Originally posted by spacebiscuit View Post
                        Thanks - so I will reply in writing with my argument being the following:

                        The NtK fails to specify the period of parking to which the notice applies
                        The NtK fails to specify the relevant land (since there are two Meridan Souths and therefore location is not exact)

                        I wouldn't if it were me. Parking co's allegedly routinely turn down the vast percentage of appeals regardless of the merit of the argument.
                        (Hint....they do not make money by being nice guys!).
                        So why give them all your legal points?
                        I would respond as registered keeper & just say that the Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4, so there can be no transfer of driver liability. Also there is no presumption in law that the registered keeper is the driver, & as you are under no obligation to name the driver, you reserve that right not to do so.
                        As such, the only reasonable course of action is to discontinue any claim & remove all personal data from your (parking co's) records; continued use will be regarded as a breach of rights via the Data Protection Act 1998.
                        Should you (parking co) take the unreasonable stance of continuing, supply all details necessary for the independent appeal.




                        I should state that I am the owner but was not the driver and I will not reveal this information.
                        Good

                        Should I mention that the photo fails to identify the vehicle and note the signs are on the central reservation and not the curbside or is this subjective?
                        No, why feed them your legal arguments?

                        In pointing out the above errors in the notice does not simply allow them to raise another notice?
                        They can't...it would be out of time.

                        Thanks again.

                        J.
                        Also I would send via 1st class post with free certificate of posting. (These firms have been known to disregard emails & on-line forms, & not accept SignedFor/tracked post).
                        CAVEAT LECTOR

                        This is only my opinion - "
                        Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                        You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                        Cohen, Herb

                        There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                        gets his brain a-going.
                        Phelps, C. C.

                        "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                        The last words of John Sedgwick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                          By "free certificate of pisting" is this the proof of postage where by the post office note the postcode and stamp the reciept?

                          Draft is done so will send this in the am.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                            Originally posted by spacebiscuit View Post
                            By "free certificate of pisting" is this the proof of postage where by the post office note the postcode and stamp the reciept?
                            Something to do with skiing, methinks? (Other possible explanations on a postcard, please, to....).

                            Only joking ....yes, it is proof that can be used as evidence to show that a letter, etc, was addressed & posted on (date).
                            It is usually deemed to have been delivered in 2 working days unless the intended recipient can prove that, for some (good) reason, it could not have been be delivered.
                            CAVEAT LECTOR

                            This is only my opinion - "
                            Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                            Cohen, Herb

                            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                            gets his brain a-going.
                            Phelps, C. C.

                            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                            The last words of John Sedgwick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PCN Tesco Hithen Green

                              That will teach me to type on a phone on a train!

                              Comment

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