PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

[brookwald]

Good Evening all,

my Mother in law the registered keeper has received a PCN from Excel Parking for not buying a valid ticket whilst shopping at Iceland in the North of England.

A couple of points/questions.

1. She was not the driver at the time.
2. The car had a flat tyre which the driver needed to fix, this was the safest area to do so.
3. The driver did not see/notice the signs in place as they did not have their reading glasses with them.
4. The driver would be happy to pay a small compensatory amount to say thank you for the time they spent repairing the vehicle but is unsure on how to achieve this or if it's really necessary?
5. Does she need to provide the driver details at all?
6. Is there a standard appeals letter template to the company in question?
7. I understand that if the initial appeal is rejected that a POPLA appeal code is provided, is there a standard appeals template for POPLA

She's quite a nervous lady and is upset by the exorbitant demands and would be hard pressed to pay anyway. Maybe they could set up a payment structure plan of say 2p a week. (lol)

Many thanks in advance.

GB.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

1. Good. Post up the PCN or check it is a valid notice to keeper.

2. Not going to help unless Iceland management have sympathy for them and arrange it's disposal.

3. If a normal person SHOULD have seen them then it doesn't matter whether they were actually seen or not.

4. Never going to happen but if it did it'd be because it was offered and accepted (probably by phone but any method of communication).

5. No. She might want to but she doesn't need to. Usually best not to as most companies can't issue a compliant notice to keeper.

6. Not really. See below.

7. Not popla. Popla is for BPA members. Excel are IPC members and their appeal service is as straight as a spiral staircase.



Dear Sirs,


I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals process. The driver did not see any signs. I note your notice to keeper is fundamentally flawed when compared to PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para 9.


Yours etc


M1

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

ok thanks, I failed to mention that they were only in the car park for 18 mins, not sure if that makes any difference? Not exactly a formula 1 pit stop but not a bad time for a pensionable age wheel change!!

can you explain:

5. Usually best not to as most companies can't issue a compliant notice to keeper.

What does this mean?

thanks
GB

[mystery1]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

They do not know who was driving so have applied to the DVLA for the registered keepers details as the protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 makes it possible to hold the keeper liable IF they comply with the requirements. Most are unable to do so.

Unless someone identifies the driver they can only chase the keeper.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

M1

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

thanks, I will have a read in the morning.

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

ok so its a quiet saturday night, I've had a quick read, not sure where that leaves us.

Next steps then, MILS (mother i'd like to strangle) will send off the response as detailed:

I, as registered keeper, wish to invoke your appeals process. The driver did not see any signs. I note your notice to keeper is fundamentally flawed when compared to PoFA 2012 schedule 4 para 9.

Presumably this will get kicked in to touch and goto the IPC.

then what? Anyone have a template for dealing with these, I've read about POPLA but not this group.

Oh another point, the driver never used a parking space to repair the tyre just part of the entrance road that didn't cause an obstruction, so did they really enter into a contract as per suggested signage? From what i've read else where this suggests that they might not have entered into a contract coupled with the fact you get a grace period of unstated time to read and find a space, but also 10 minutes to then leave the car park could it be successfully argued that 18 minutes for the time spent in the car park could be allocated to finding a space (although they didn't nor did they use one), reading the terms and then leaving albeit very slowly?

cheers
GB.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

Not really a template but i'll knock something up when required. It'll probably be knocked back as "the registered keeper is likely the driver" or some such garbage even if they've been told otherwise.

That then makes it a game of chicken. Will you ignore long enough that it becomes statute barred or will they go to court knowing the registered keeper was not the driver and only winning the appeal based on the incorrect assumption that the registered keeper was driving. If you'll chicken out take the lower punishment. If you won't then play the game.

M1

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

ok, thanks, will pass on the info. And see what they decide.

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

ok, thanks, will pass on the info. And see what they decide.

They are contesting it and will use the statement detailed above.

In the meantime, If you could help me with a more detailed response for the next stage I'd be much obliged.

Many thanks.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

I will do. A few more urgent matters still to deal with so if i forget give me a nudge.

M1

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

I will do. A few more urgent matters still to deal with so if i forget give me a nudge.

M1

thanks, will do.

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

I will do. A few more urgent matters still to deal with so if i forget give me a nudge.

M1

Good Evening,

The mother in law has received a response after we sent the previous reply following the original 'fine' letter.

They have provided her with a notice 'serial No', and 'site no.' and details on how to appeal to the IAS.

Can you provide me with a detailed appeal response please?

The letter seems standard and goes on about entering into a contract etc, and that if the 'appeal' is rejected then she'll be liable for the £100, this seems odd as it originally stated that the process would be put on hold until we'd had an outcome.

Either way if you can provide us with a firm appeal i'll get it sent off and see what happens.

Will it make any difference to the IAS that it was an emergency stop to change a tyre?

Many thanks in advance.

[mystery1]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

Have you identified flaws in the notice to keeper ?

M1

[brookwald]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

Have you identified flaws in the notice to keeper ?

M1

Yes, if i've understood the wording correctly then they have made a 'reasonable' assumption that she was the driver and are pursuing her for the payment when it states that they must wait 28 days before she then becomes liable from paragraph 4.

(4) The right under this paragraph may only be exercised after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day on which the notice to keeper is given.

Does that make sense or haven't I understood the wording correctly?

[ostell]

Re: PCN Excel Parking in Iceland.

They may say it but it is not a reasonable assumption that the keeper was driving. Any reason available that would show the keeper not driving (broken leg mashappy?

Have you checked POFA paragraph 9 against the notice to keeper that was received? There's a bulleted list on MSE but I can't find the reference at the moment.

Was it received within the 14 days, was the period of parking given, was the creditor explicitly named etc.