PCN forgot to put Reg Number in machine in shop

[ivanpark]

Hi,
I have received a PCN as I was waiting for someone at the back of the shop whilst they went in to buy something, I didn’t leave the car.

It was one of those shops where you should put your VRM in to the machine – they forgot

I have been back into the shop and even though I bought something they said there was nothing they could do as the carpark was run by somebody else, and I should have put the number plate in the machine.

Is there anything I can do or do I just have to pay?
Thanks in advance

[des8]

Perhaps the person who forgot to enter the VRN might like to pay !
Also if the shop have employed the parking company, the shop can insist the charge is cancelled. However if the shop is leased it is possible the site owner was responsible for appointing the parking co.

You could challenge that ticket on the basis that it only shows one picture of your vehicle whilst stationary (the close up seems to me to be an enlargement of part of the other picture).
The times shown aren't integral to the pictures and so have been added afterwards, so you will be questioning the accuracy of their systems
I note they are members of both trade associations (IPC & BPA)
The combined operators code of practice requires they allow a consideration period for driver to arrive, park, find, read and understand the terms and conditions of parking before deciding whether to park or leave. Generally this is between 5 & 10 minutes.
If they do not comply with the code you could argue any contract was not properly formed or the terms were unfair.

I would start by sending a letter along the following lines:

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012,by failing to "identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made" as prescribed by section 9 (2) (h) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear further from you, or any debt collectors you care to instruct, regarding this event, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records

Yours etc

first class post with free certificate of posting from a post office

Presumably this was the small carpark behind the shop?
If you intend to challenge this one to the bitter end a photo of the parking signs will be useful at sometime

[ivanpark]

Hi, I have received the new attached letter, please let me know my options

I sent the letter signed for, surely they cannot just say No and put the fine up to £100??
I thought the time limit stopped whilst you were appealing?

[des8]

You are correct!
The current Parking Sector Single Code of Practice @ sec 8.1.2.e) states:
" that if the recipient appeals within 28 days of receiving the parking charge, the right to pay at the rate applicable when the appeal was made must stand for a further 14 days from the date (subject to 8.1.2d) they receive notification that their appeal has been rejected;"

I doubt they even read your appeal against their charge (it is NOT a fine!)
The letter they sent you is a template they send to anyone who appeals and is full of inaccuracies and misleading statements e.g the bit about the presumption that the driver was the keeper (besides being ar$$e about face) is completely wrong!)

You could appeal to the IAS, but they rarely find in favour of the appellant, as they are not truly independent of the car parking industry.

Your choice of what to do:
Write and tell them they are in breach of their code of practice (and perhaps enclose money for the original charge if you just want to give in and hope they accept it)
or Appeal to IAS (if you want to waste your time
or Wait for debt collectors to chase you ... you can ignore them!
or Wait for a court claim which you should win.

I would choose the last option, but entirely up to you

[ivanpark]

OK thank you

[PallasAthena]

As Des8 says this just a template letter that they couldn't even be bothered to edit to make it relevant to your circumstances or to what you actually wrote to them.

They say, for example, that "...all vehicles must pay to park in this area" but I doubt this is correct as places where you have to enter the VRM in a machine in the premises usually make no charge for parking (it's just to confirm you are a genuine customer).

They also say "your vehicle was left unattended on Private Property" when in fact you were in the vehicle the whole time. (But don't challenge them about that as you could accidentally out yourself as the driver).

In our experience private parking companies routinely ignore what people write to them and just send back a standard letter rejecting your 'appeal'. I'm not convinced they even read what you wrote. So their reply is no surprise to us.

Do what Des8 recommends.