Grace Period

[Rks2020]

Is an appeal to Popla based on Grace period a valid one please , where the issuer has only shown driver at time of vehicle was seen stationary , image was taken by employee of private firm ,
driver was there less than 5 minutes. ?

[atticus]

but vehicle was parked?

[des8]

Suggest you post up a copy of the PCN, suitably redacted and a photo of the signage at the car park.

Have you identified the driver to the parking company?

[Rks2020]

Hi all,

please see appeal rejected , driver not disclosed , Image was taken by employee with camera , no signs saying CCTV in force.

Initial appeal sent was : Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.
There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

https://i.imgur.com/H9ljKy8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SbHOoQH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6LHhBuI.jpg

Should there not be a reasonable time given for driver to read any such notices ?
Thanks for any info , advice.

[des8]

So when you write your PoPLA appeal you should also include the fact that the PCN does not mention the PERIOD of parking as required by PoFA 2012

There may be other points in that notice , or on the signage which might not be worded correctly.

[Rks2020]

Hi , just FYI , the bays do not for pay and display ect , the signage states for customers visiting the site and that they should make sure their car is registered for parking. One would need some time to be able to read and digest this form the signs anyway. Not sure where one stands with this ?

[des8]

What then did the PCN state? (for some reason I can't now access the images)

If it was claiming for breach of contract (the "contract" being displayed on the signage) it could be a wrongly formatted claim.
If parking was for authorised vehicles only, there can be no contract for unauthorised vehicles as one cannot contract to do what is forbidden
If that is the case the claim should be from the landowner for damages caused by the trespass.

[ostell]

For POPL: no 9(2) (b), no 9 (2) (e)

What exactly do the signs say? Photo mightvhelp

[Rks2020]

https://imgur.com/H9ljKy8
https://imgur.com/SbHOoQH
https://imgur.com/6LHhBuI
https://imgur.com/YwkP0i2

try these above please :

The parking charge notice to keeper says:

Your vehicle was parked at ........ on 16/8/22 at 09:19 as a result we have issued a PCN........
We issued a PCN to the vehicle because it broke the following condition: Unauthorised Parking.
By aprking on this private land , you agree to the terms and conditions clearly displayed on the signs on site .You are liable to pay a charge if you breach those conditions.

let me know if you cannot open the images i used IMGUR Thanks

[Rks2020]

Hi,
I have 4 days to either pay or contest via Popla, have I a case please?

[des8]

If i was you, I would be appealing to Popla, and if necessary continue to county court, but that is your decision

In the course of this thread you have been given the points you should make when lodging your appeal with Popla.

[Rks2020]

Hi Des8 ,

So can one use the fact that the pcn does not show period of parking for parking bays for a private practice which does not require or have any payment for parking but states parking for customers only and that they must register their vehicles within the practice?

Also there is an entrance sign but it is very low one cannot really see it as one drives into the area for parking for nursery and either side of the area is used for 1. private practice and on the other side for nursery school.
https://i.imgur.com/Qjrjipr.jpg

1.can only see entrance sign properly when walking into the area .
2.Signs were behind the vehicle so if one reversed into the parking area you would not see it.
3. One would need some time 5 mins to read the signage - grace period?
4. No mention of time the vehicle was there.
5. No mention of cameras - non but also no mention of photography by foot patrol.

Do these apply for such areas where no payment is required as parking only for customers ?
For POPL: no 9(2) (b), no 9 (2) (e

Thanks

[Rks2020]

quote " 13 Grace periods 13.1 If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract."

there is no indication how long the vehicle was there in the pcn.

[Rks2020]

Hi all ,

Can someone confirm if the following points are still valid please before One appeals to POPLA

Schedule 4 of the POFA section 8 and 9 outlines the mandatory requirements that must be included on the Notice To Keeper. If any of the information is missing, the Notice To Driver becomes invalid, and Schedule 4 of the POFA section 6 has not been complied with. Failure to adhere to Schedule 4 of the POFA section 6 means the registered keeper can’t be held liable to the debt of the driver. The requirements that should be on the Notice To Keeper are:

• Which car the PCN relates to;
• What land the vehicle was parked on;
• The period of time the vehicle was parked for

Is the 3rd point - the period of time the vehicle was parked for still apply ? as no details of such to NTK.

BPA code of practice states :

Grace periods 13.1 If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract

Is the above still valid ?

Finally wish to include signage being poor and requiring one to have to read , see images please :

https://i.imgur.com/enHBRFd.jpg (Poor signage to entry to shared parking in road, one can only see properly if driving out or on foot.)


https://i.imgur.com/QemfX4v.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/4sAAAKB.jpg One needs to get out of car and walk right up to read them.


Thanks

[des8]

All points are relevant, especially when appealing to PoPLA