BPA reject my complaint

[jax50]

I received a PCN for not paying in error, I paid the £50 in the end but the parking company said they want another £50 and have handed it to the solicitors now, so the £50 'bill' is now £126 with fees etc. This set me going and I found out there was no planning approvals for the advertising signs and ANPR cameras. The failure with advertising consent is actually illegal, and while the local council are now enforcing it can not be back dated. I wrote the AOS/BPA to tell them about the failure to comply with their terms and conditions of membership rules, which the car park co. rely on to get DVLA info.

I received the reply from AOS/BPA saying they didn't consider it a breach of the T&Cs, but it clearly is, I've read their T&C's.

I have tried to build a defence around this, ie there can be no contract where an illegal act has taken place, their 'rights' to access DVLA data were invalid...etc. However while I have written evidence from the local council about no planning approvals, AOS/BPA are still supporting their member despite not complying (in fact they have been non compliant for many years).

Any suggestions ?

[Kati]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

[MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION] ??

[ostell]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

The BPA will always support those that pay them, what else do you expect.

Need details of the PCN and the stage you are at at the moment. What are the solicitors saying? Copy of that letter, suitably redacted, would be nice. Have you been given a POPLA code?

It's difficult to give advice without knowing the full story.

Don't identify the driver.

[jax50]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

The BPA will always support those that pay them, what else do you expect.

Need details of the PCN and the stage you are at at the moment. What are the solicitors saying? Copy of that letter, suitably redacted, would be nice. Have you been given a POPLA code?

It's difficult to give advice without knowing the full story.

Don't identify the driver.

The PCN was for being 6 minutes over the 'permitted' 11 minutes, i should have paid £1.60 - they had ANPR and sent a letter...
I appealed, then appealed to POPLA but before POPLA gave verdict i coughed up my £50. parking co.want the other £50 now, which they have passed to ZZPS, who have written 3times, then QDR have written saying if I don't pay the £100 in 14 days they may pass to their litigation dept. This may mean a CCJ. please call us.. of course it 'should be' £50, not£100 and they're now wanting £196.

As stated in post 1, I have checked the planning etc, written to their local council (Brent) POPLA, AOS, LCP..but ignored ZZPS and QDR.

I've not received any actual LBA...but I'm just wondering if I have enough to defend a potential action, with the illegal signs and the ANPR without PP. I've tried to get AOS to suspend LCP, I've tried to get decision overturned at POPLA (no joy), I've written to LCP who have just reiterated their original arguments...there was a contract, it was legal, you owe me money, cough up or else.. etc.

[charitynjw]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

From what I've been reading lately, for some reason parking co's seem to get away with this issue of no planning permission of both signage & cameras on a regular basis, even in court.

The PCN was for being 6 minutes over the 'permitted' 11 minutes

I'm not too sure what you mean by the above.

Ps....this may be of interest to you
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...nning.html?m=0

[jax50]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

From what I've been reading lately, for some reason parking co's seem to get away with this issue of no planning permission of both signage & cameras on a regular basis, even in court.


I'm not too sure what you mean by the above.

All the pay car parks are supposed to allow 10 minutes , BPA rules I think...this one said they allowed 11 minutes, I was clocked in and out 17 minutes later by the ANPR cameras.

[charitynjw]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

I've added a postscript to the above.

[jax50]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

From what I've been reading lately, for some reason parking co's seem to get away with this issue of no planning permission of both signage & cameras on a regular basis, even in court.


I'm not too sure what you mean by the above.

yes I see the same thing regarding planning approvals...with just the odd exceptions. I don't think this has been tested yet at a higher Court though so the rulings are just 'advisory'...i suppose. Considering the signage is key to the formation of a contract with the driver it surprises me that flouting the law , and in breach of BPA rules carries no weight. it's actually an offence not to have advertising consent, so some advisors have suggested that as it is breaking the law then the contract cannot be offered...in fact the signs should be removed or covered until PP is granted. some say. Another maybe tenuous option offered by some is the legislation regarding contracts and 'illegal acts'.. can a contract exist where it;s formation relies on a crime..there was a case where some kind of definitive ruling was sought but it's far from a definite argument to make..and a DJ would just glaze over I expect.

[charitynjw]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

All the pay car parks are supposed to allow 10 minutes , BPA rules I think...this one said they allowed 11 minutes, I was clocked in and out 17 minutes later by the ANPR cameras.

You are allowed a 'reasonable period' at the start of the parking event (to find a suitable parking space, read signage etc), plus a minimum 10 mins extra to exit the car park.

[jax50]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

You are allowed a 'reasonable period' at the start of the parking event (to find a suitable parking space, read signage etc), plus a minimum 10 mins extra to exit the car park.

I'm under the impression the 10 minutes covers both events...?

[charitynjw]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

I'm under the impression the 10 minutes covers both events...?

13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If thedriver is on your land without permission you should stillallow them a grace period to read your signs and leavebefore you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace periodat a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave theprivate car park after the parking contract has ended, beforeyou take enforcement action. If the location is one whereparking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the endof the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/writ...update_V6..pdf

[wales01man]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

It states a miniumum of 10 minutes but no maximum?

[ostell]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

Don't forget that at the time that the cameras recorded the car it was moving and not actually parked. So there are several minutes after passing that entry camera for a parking place to be found, the conditions read and agreed to and the payment made. There is a school of thought (sensible I think) that the contract is not made until the contract is accepted and the money is paid. Was this a paid for car park?

No advertising consent is a criminal act and, as has been said, an application can not be backdated. As the sign is there illegally then a contract can not created by an illegal act.

[charitynjw]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

While I agree that 'advertising' consent cannot be retrospective, the decision whether or not to prosecute is discretionary.
& it would appear that LA's often excercise their discretion for the benefit of parking co's. (The 'public safety & amenity' clause is usually their (LA) 'get out of jail' card..... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...ulation/3/made )

[jax50]

Re: BPA reject my complaint

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/writ...update_V6..pdf

Thank you, well that definitely states a grace period of a minimum 10 mins to leave the car park (although it says after the contract ends), plus a grace period before deciding whether to stay and to read the signs. LCP allowed 11 minutes, so that's the minimum 10 to leave plus 1 minute to read the signs and park. It just took me
5 mins and 50 seconds to read the T&C's, 30 seconds to read the ANPR sign and35 seconds to read the Tariff Board sign.