Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

[Ian Michael Jones]

I was issued a FPN for a parking offence when driving my wife's vehicle. I paid the fine at the reduced rate of £35 via the Councils automated system however unknown to me at the time it was outside the allowed 21 days although the system accepted and took the payment
A few months later my wife received a letter from the Council stating they wanted the other half of the fine however I wrote back stating that this was a little harsh and possibly an abuse of process as the had accepted my payment
I heard no more until a bailiff attended my home address on the 18th July at 7.30am as we were away my elderly mum tried to speak with them before she rang me. The bailiff then clamped MY car as the debt/fine was in my wife's name and told him he couldn't do this however as that car was insured to my wife he said he could.
I then had no choice especially being away from the home paid the fee of £387 as he totally refused any formal payment.
I would appreciate any thoughts or advice on the 2 issues raised

Thanks

Ian

[Kati]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

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[Milo]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

I was issued a FPN for a parking offence when driving my wife's vehicle. I paid the fine at the reduced rate of £35 via the Councils automated system however unknown to me at the time it was outside the allowed 21 days although the system accepted and took the payment

A few months later my wife received a letter from the Council stating they wanted the other half of the fine however I wrote back stating that this was a little harsh and possibly an abuse of process as the had accepted my payment I heard no more until a bailiff attended my home address on the 18th July at 7.30am as we were away my elderly mum tried to speak with them before she rang me.

The bailiff then clamped MY car as the debt/fine was in my wife's name and told him he couldn't do this however as that car was insured to my wife he said he could.

Are you sure that this was a Fixed Penalty Notice? The reason why I ask is that FPN's are usually issued by the police. In most councils, the notice should have been a PCN (Penalty Charge Notice)?

After you made payment, you state that you received a letter from the council. Do you know whether this letter was a Notice to Owner or a Charge Certificate?

Before getting to the very late stage of a personal visit, you should have received a letter entitled: Notice of Enforcement from the relevant enforcement agency. I am assuming that you had not received this. Have you moved address in the past few months?

Have you spoken to the council about the letter that you sent to them?

Which bailiff company was this?

[Ian Michael Jones]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

Apologies yes I meant a PCN to clarify after the Council sent me a letter stating that the paid £35 was not accepted I wrote a letter of appeal they then wrote back and I wrote back for a second time again outlining my points that I believed this was an abuse of process as they had accepted all be it by computer my offer of payment.
I heard nothing more until the Bailiff attended my home a number of months later, both the Council and Bailiff Company who are Excel state they wrote to me but I have not received any correspondence.
I spoke to the Council on the day but they stated it was out of their hands as they had instructed the Bailiff Company I tried to explain that they were only agents acting on their Instructions however they would not help.
I just want to know my facts especially about the accepted payment and the fact that the bailiff clamped a vehicle not belonging to my wife who was the debtor.
Any further advice would be great, I have read on the Citazen Advice Web Site that a Bailiff can only seize items belonging to the Debtor but the vehicle he clamped belonged to me however my wife is the main insurer if that makes a difference but I paid and am the RO.
PS Baillif Company is Excel I have checked with the MOJ but can't see that the Bailiff is registered with them either!!

Thanks again

Are you sure that this was a Fixed Penalty Notice? The reason why I ask is that FPN's are usually issued by the police. In most councils, the notice should have been a PCN (Penalty Charge Notice)?

After you made payment, you state that you received a letter from the council. Do you know whether this letter was a Notice to Owner or a Charge Certificate?

Before getting to the very late stage of a personal visit, you should have received a letter entitled: Notice of Enforcement from the relevant enforcement agency. I am assuming that you had not received this. Have you moved address in the past few months?

Have you spoken to the council about the letter that you sent to them?

Which bailiff company was this?

[R0b]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

Do you have proof that the car is in yours, such as proof of sale or is the car on hire purchase?

Also when you say the car is insured to your wife, it sounds like the bailiff has carried out some sort of check to validate your claim that it is yours and if the car is insured solely in your wife's name then I would think that is reasonable suspicion to say that the car might belong to your wife where there is no other evidence. Is your wife the main driver of the insurance or a named driver?

[Ian Michael Jones]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

Hi

I appreciate that it may sound like I'm splitting hairs on this point but I bought the vehicle from my personal savings and the vehicle is registered in my name, the vehicle is rarely driven due to my wife's illness however as she is the main user and not to commit an offence of fronting I have put the insurance in my wife's name and I'm a named driver.
You are correct I believe the Bailiff had the use some kind of ANPR device which is news to me but as I was not present when he attended I'm a little unsure.

[R0b]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

Hi Ian, you do make a fair point on the fronting issue, the Courts have recognised that the registered keeper does not prove ownership of the vehicle however there is a presumption that there is. Equally, a person named on the insurance does not mena that they are the owner of the vehicle. If the registered keeper together with the same name on the insurance policy matches then you could argue there is a presumption that the owner is the registered keeper. It can be rebutted but that would have to be proven by the bailiff. Yes your wife is the main driver but as you say, the main driver is stipulated to show who uses the car more often on a daily basis so it cannot be proof of ownership.

Have you paid the sums already and has the car been returned? If the bailiff was put on notice that the car was not owned by her and he's done reasonable checks as to who is insured on the policy then it can be presumed he also knew who the registered keeper was and if your name was both on the insurance policy and V5C then he ought to have asked for further evidence before clamping it than just saying he can do it because your wife is on the insurance.

Wrongful interference is claim you can bring against the bailiff and the creditor who instructed as they would be liable for his actions. The bailiff might argue a defence saying he had reasonable suspicion on this case but the question will be whether he ought to have taken further steps before clamping the car i.e. sale of proof of payment made and who to.

Court action would be the route to take but suggest you raise the issue with the bailiff and Excel first before going down the legal route and there is scope for you to lose but with it being small claims your costs should be limited.

[Ian Michael Jones]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

Hi ROb

Many thanks for you advice further to the issue of ownership I also pay for the tax, MOT and Insurance on the vehicle as my wife is unable to work due to illness and I bought the vehicle just for her to use now again when I'm in work, thus my opinion I'm the owner of the vehicle although as you say will the Courts see it that way.
As previously stated unfortunately I was not present when the Bailiff attended at 7.30am as I was away with my wife. I spoke to the Bailiff on the phone as my mother was looking after our children and I tried to explain the issue of ownership of the vehicle he was threatening to clamp unless I paid the fine however he stated as "my wife had an interest in the vehicle as it was Insured in her name he could clamp it.
As I could not pay the fine immediately he clamped the vehicle and stated unless I paid the fine in full he would tow it away in 2 hours however if I spoke with their Head Office they would set up a payment plan.
I then tried to speak with the Council however they stated that there was nothing they could do as they had instructed the Bailiffs I tried to explain that they were their Agents and they must have some control over them however they did state that normally they the Bailiffs would normally accept 50% of the fine and then set up a payment plan.
I then spoke with the Bailiff's Head Office who said there was nothing they could do and the matter was under the control of Mr Holvey the bailiff who had attended my address. I tried to explain that he had told me to ring them and set up a plan and that he was an employee of their's and thus they could help me however they would not assist in any way.
I then felt I had no choice but to pay the fine and try to fight it afterwards thus made a card payment over the telephone with Mr Holvey the Bailiff. I understand he e-attended at my address and removed the clamp he left me a receipt for my card payment however he did not leave me any paperwork as I asked him in relation to his attendance and the break down of the fine/fee.
I hope this helps and any further advice would be gratefully accepted
Also not sure if its your area but have you any thoughts about the payment issue do you think I have a case to argue an abuse of process as the automated payment system accepted and took my reduced payment?

[R0b]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

The question really is what you want to do, the only way to go about this is to bring a claim against the bailiff for wrongful interference but thats only if you want to go that far or just write it off. If you go down this route, what sort of damages are you looking for? If the court finds that Mr Holvey has acted unlawfully potentially you could claim the amount of the balance you have paid and maybe some more but it would be based on a balance of probabilities. You could also attempt to bring the council into this under vicarious liability (liable for acts or omissions of another) but if you do then expect them to have a lawyer against you.

I'm not sure you would be entitled to the bailiff fees but your wife should be if she writes to them asking for a breakdown as the debt is under her name, but you have only paid the balance.

As for your system, if the councils payment system confirmed that you were only liable for £35 at the time even though you were outside the 21 day period then there may also be an arguable case that they accepted the amount as being discharged from any further liability

[Ian Michael Jones]

Re: Parking Fine and Bailiff Action

Hi Rob

Yes I would certainly like to have my money back from the Bailiffs as I believe they have acted illegally and immorally, the only thing I would like to add is when I made the payment via the automated system you have to input the amount you wish to pay which was as I say accepted by the system and it wasn't for a month until the Council contacted us stating they wanted the full payment
Thanks for your help