Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

[Amy]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

hey, just discovered this thread. is it true then, that if I say get a parking fine from the customer car park at Focus DIY, it is unenforceable and I can ignore it?

If it comes from a private parking firm, then yes.

What parking fines are enforceable then, only local authority and police ones?

Yes.

can't private land owners like Focus sue for the fines?

Yes they can, but the whole point is the difference between a crime and a civil offence. A PCN (penalty charge notice) from a Local Authority, if not paid, will be moved to enforcement through the Magistrates' Court. Whereas, a PCN (parking charge notice) from a private firm will be dealt with by a County Court as it is a civil offence rather than a criminal one.

Note the subtle differences between the PCNs.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

ok, so the private parking firm employed by Focus could take me to court and get a CCJ for not paying their car park fine? that makes it enforceable doesn't it?

[Amy]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Enforceable as an invoice perhaps, but not as a Penalty Charge Notice because it isn't one.

[Curlyben]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Parking on private land and the penalty charges involved are a very contentious issue, but on the whole are completely unenforceable as they rely on implied contract law.

That being said you should always park in a lawful and considerate manner where ever you are.

[michael]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

- But should I appeal or should I ignore -
Never ignore a Council PCN, that's just asking for trouble
Its dont through the council i believe so Derbsyhire county council etc the main issue here is its a monthly battle, its not just me either several residents are in the same boat and get tickets for lack of places doesn't seem to make any odds if you have a residancey pass either.
A resident's permit is no guarantee of a parking space. A few councils will limit the number of permits for a particular area, most will issue as many as applied for regardless of the number of parking spaces available

I am willing to fight this and am tempted to tell them to take me straight to court tbh!!

Any advice would be brill
OPbC

Your best bet is to go to Pepipoo here:

FightBack Forums -> Parking and Decriminalised Notices

You will need to post both sides of the PCN, together with any photos of bays, signs etc.

[BigK]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

There is plenty about this on the internet. They use scare tactics.
The notices are known as PCN's - Parking Charge Notices. The difference between these and Council issued PCN's is that the latter are Penalty Charge Notices - Ignore the latter at your peril for they are enforceable.

With these Parking Charge Notices there can be no debt without a Contract. Even if parking on private land is deemed a Contract such Contract would be with the driver who parked it there.

They will only have details from DVLA about the Registered Keeper, who may or may not have been the driver. There can be no claim against the Registered Keeper per se.

Therefore - Do not reply, even to appeal, however strong the letters might get or from whom they come - nor even if the so called debt mounts up with late payment charges. Most 'solicitors' letters will be from a subsidiary company, probably in the same office as those who claim the debt.

In any event do not pay or offer to pay. That would confirm a contract.

You may get telephone calls - if you are in the directory. They will say 'is that Mr(s) xxxxx?'. Your reply should be 'Who wants to know?'. Hang up if they won't say who they are. Hang up too if they do say they are the PCN people.

Quite a while ago a few PCN firms did raise a claim in the County Court making the Registered Keeper the Defendant. To date NONE have been awarded Judgement where a defence has been entered. That is why you MUST NOT give the name of the driver even if it is not you.

BUT, in the unlikely event that any PCN firm do file proceedings against you, you MUST defend the case (firstly on the documents from the Court and then if necessary in the Court) - (check for the Court 'Seal' on the documents because PCN firms have in the past forged their own 'Court documents'). If you do not enter a defence they will get Judgement by YOUR default.

The defence is that the Registered Keeper has not entered into any Contract with the Claimant and is not the 'offender' and is therefore not liable for any alleged debt. The Court cannot require you to divulge the name of the driver. A Judge who is a bit peeved on the day might ask you who the driver was. The response should be that a few people drive your car on their own Insurance and you cannot recall the particular day in question. Don't just refuse to say who it was.

The letters will stop after a while - maybe it will be a few months. Your credit rating will NOT be affected unless there is a Court Judgement and even then only if you did not pay the Judgement. Nor will Bailiff's attend to seize your goods.

Stick it out and then the shysters will get the message.

[Curlyben]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Psst, BigK, thanks for the input, but this thread was from 2009

[BigK]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Yes, I know its from 2009 Curlyben - but I came across it didn't I, so others might who don't know where to turn against these bullies.

And maybe if a few of the previous posters could confirm that the various PCN firms actions have ceased it would give courage to others not to hand their hard earned cash away.

Kind regards

[BigK]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

UPDATE: See my posts above - I sat tight on a claim for alleged Parking Charge from Car Parking Partnership. The 'offence' was committed in June 2010. I had three letters from them, the last from a firm of Solicitors - they seem to have gone away now - There's a surprise!!! But do read what you must and must not do, above.

[mervyng2]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

guys i received a similar letter from civil enforcement ltd few montha ago.. after reading few forums ive decided to ignore them... after the final reminder I've received a letter today saying that they are intended to take the matter to Northampton County Court. It is not from Newlyn. i wish i cud attach the letter here...

Anyway the letter still looks fake to me as the County Courts Act (section 69) looks like scanned and pasted into the letter. They say they will seize my vehicle/good, and many other things they can possibly do.

What shall I do? Do I continue to ignore them? It just bugging me.

Please do reply

[Curlyben]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Still file it under I.
Since when can they seize your vehicle ????

What utter bovine excrement..

What EXACTLY does the letter say ?

[magik.thighs]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Hello all....just joined the site.
Great thread for others to learn from! Ive been fighting these for ages, my son just got his very 1st parking ticket (private scammers) today.
Looking forward to all the funny letters from them

[cunliffed]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Hi Everyone ,

As with many others I have just recd letter from Civil enforcement Ltd based in Liverpool asking for final demand of £90 as on above threads issued to registered keeper , didnt recieve any earlier demands , ive read the above threads and others on ignoring these letters on the basis that its a civil case and not enforceable etc , my only concern is the above threads go back to 2009 , my letter turned up today 25/6/2012 , has anything changed ie do these companies now follow through with their threats to take you to court ?

[bluebottle]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

If it's from a private parking company, it's speculative invoicing and unenforceable. A PPC has recently had a claim struck-out by a court, but because it was at County Court level, it doesn't set a precedence. However, one PPC and its directors were fined £30,000 by a magistrates court for their demands. If Civil Enforcement claim you owe them, they have to first prove that there is a legally-enforceable contract in existence and that a loss has been incurred. You cannot sue solely for a penalty charge alone on private land.

[LukeHarveyyy]

Re: Parking Fine - Civil Enforcement

Hi I just received one of these parking enforcement notices for £75 or £150 if I don't pay within 14 days.

The thing is that the "fine" went to my work colleagues address as I recently brought the car off her so the details haven't obviously changed on the dvlas systems. I wold happily just ignore all he letters but my work colleague is reluctant to do this as its in her nAme so what are my options? :/

thanks in advance to anyone that replies!