PCN from Parking Eye - hospital car park

[pharmchick2]

I took my young daughter to an out patient appointment to Lincoln County Hospital and we received a PCN saying we "did not park within a bay". The bay we parked in had faded lines on the left and a solid line to the right. My car is a 4x4 and hence bigger than a standard car, I also have 2 children who need enough space to come out of the car in order not to damage the next car when opening the door. I parked in good faith don't believe this is a fair parking charge. I appealed and complained to PALS and they said: "Thank you for the additional information – I have liaised with my colleagues in the facilities team who have confirmed that you would need to appeal due the car being parked outside the lines. I am sorry but we would be unable to help further." After pressurising them further, they wrote the following: "PALS are not able to support any parking fines- we are advised to ask the motorist to appeal. I would suggest waiting to hear from the appeals team first – as this may be cancelled. If you do wish to raise this further – although the information may be the same the complaints team email is ulth.complaintsulh@nhs.net"
There should be bays for parents and children, it is ridiculous to expect someone to pay £70 for having a car that does not perfectly fit into a bay. One discrepancy that I noticed on the ticket is that it stated the event time as 13:34 meanwhile I was no longer at the hospital at that time because I paid for only 1 hour of parking (pay on exit) meaning I would have left at 1pm. The pictures on the PCN however state 12:02.
I will await the appeal, but would be glad for any other advice?

[des8]

Your appeal will almost certainly fail to have PE cancel the charge (cancelling charges affects their income!)

I suppose in your appeal you identified yourself as the driver?
Was the PCN placed on the car or sent through the post?
Could you please post up a redacted photo of the Notice, and if possible pictures of the parking signs at the hospital?

[pharmchick2]

The PCN was sent my letter only, there was no sticker placed on the day. In my appeal, I guess I did identify myself as the driver given the explanations I had to give. Please see attached for the PCN letter. How do they expect people with larger size cars and small children to operate the car park if they do not provide larger car spaces? If I had been any closer to the other my kids would have scractched the other car whilst opening it.

[des8]

Well there's nothing to be done until you hear from PE that they are not accepting your mitigating circumstances.

Do check the width of your vehicle against the width of the parking bay (make a note of the sizes)
Get pictures of the faded lines

When you hear from PE go back to the hospital complaining vociferously in writing
They employ PE, so can instruct them as their agents to cancel the charge.
PE are not responsible for the upkeep and layout of the parking facilities, the hospital are.
Because of that, if court proceedings are initiated, you tell them you will request a copy of the contract between PE & the Hospital, and then point out in court the hospital are setting their patients up to incur parking charges. Obviously you will invite the local press to attend the court hearing!

[pharmchick2]

thank you very much, I will make it a point to keep everyone posted for learnings.

[pharmchick2]

As expected, I received a generic letter saying that my appeal has been unsuccessful, see attached. The plan now is as follows:
- Ignore any further comms from Parkingeye for now unless they start proceedings to take me to small claims
- write PALS again and state that I want to make a formal complaint to the hospital based on the following: They are not complying the NHS Parking guidance; they are disciminating against parents with children using the car park; reminding them that they are land owners contracting PE so they are responsible for ensuring their enforcement complies with the parking guidance; state that I will request for a copy of the contract between them and PE to use as evidence in court. Wish me good luck lol!

[des8]

You might as well also lodge an appeal with POPLA. It doesn't cost you anything!

You might find something useful in this link: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...of%2030%20days.

[pharmchick2]

As expected, Parkingeye rejected the appeal without addressing any of the points; it seems just a generic letter saying I did not provide any evidence. They did not even address the fact that the time of the supposed event is not correct because at that time, I had already left the hospital. I emailed the hospital again saying that they appeal was rejected and that I feel they are discriminating against young people and others who need more space but who are not blue badge holders. They said I have to appeal to popla and that they will assess the impact that the lack of parent and child bays has on their visitors. They also claim that by having parked the way I did, I deprived others from parking which is not correct because it was only my right tyre that was out of bay and had no impact on someone parking next to me. Shall I give up at this point?

[des8]

Did you appeal to POPLA?

Did you revisit the car park to measure size of parking bays. and take photos of the faded lines?

From the photos you posted in post 1, it certainly appears you parked over the line, and you admit it.
What you need to demonstrate is that parking in any other manner was impossible and the site is set up for you to break the rules

BPA 2016 guidelines about parking spaces: https://www.britishparking.co.uk/wri...-_Jul_2016.pdf
New guidelines from the Institution of Structural Engineers suggest an average parking space should go from an average 2.4 by 4.8 metres to roughly 2.6 by 5.0 metres.

I still think your best option is to make a nuisance of yourself at the hospital and even complain to your MP about the hospital's lack of support.
If you still have the option of paying the discounted charge it might be worth considering it, if only to avoid the stress of court and the time it takes to deal with a court claim.

Your choice

[pharmchick2]

Did you appeal to POPLA?

Did you revisit the car park to measure size of parking bays. and take photos of the faded lines?

From the photos you posted in post 1, it certainly appears you parked over the line, and you admit it.
What you need to demonstrate is that parking in any other manner was impossible and the site is set up for you to break the rules

BPA 2016 guidelines about parking spaces: https://www.britishparking.co.uk/wri...-_Jul_2016.pdf
New guidelines from the Institution of Structural Engineers suggest an average parking space should go from an average 2.4 by 4.8 metres to roughly 2.6 by 5.0 metres.

I still think your best option is to make a nuisance of yourself at the hospital and even complain to your MP about the hospital's lack of support.
If you still have the option of paying the discounted charge it might be worth considering it, if only to avoid the stress of court and the time it takes to deal with a court claim.

Your choice

Another point to note is that you can clearly see there was a massive pothole in the front right right where my tyre is and that definitely contributed to the way I could park safely.

[des8]

If you are going to fight this you need to document all the problems illustrated with photos and measurements
Those need to show clearly the inadequacies of the markings, the depth and size of pothole etc.

I still think your best option is via complaining to the hospital, local papers, MP

[pharmchick2]

Just wanted to come back to thank you des8 for your help and guidance: I received a decision from POPLA today saying my appeal was successful on the grounds that the bay markings were not clear. Greatly appreciated!

[des8]

well done and thanks for the update