Smart Parking Ltd - letter arrived 16 days after it was issued

[A Family man]

As in the description, we parked and stayed over the 4 hours allowed (we were looking at and buying a sofa and visited several shops)- that I am not contesting, but the date of contravention is dated as 12/04/23, the date issued is 02/05/23 and we received the letter in the post today, the 18/05/23. We would have paid the reduced figure of £60 (from £100) but we've received it 16 days after it was apparently issued and so the 14-day period in which we could have paid the reduced figure is null and void. What else is there to do/say in this circumstance?

thanks for reading!

[ULA]

tag charitynjw

[charitynjw]

As in the description, we parked and stayed over the 4 hours allowed (we were looking at and buying a sofa and visited several shops)- that I am not contesting, but the date of contravention is dated as 12/04/23, the date issued is 02/05/23 and we received the letter in the post today, the 18/05/23. We would have paid the reduced figure of £60 (from £100) but we've received it 16 days after it was apparently issued and so the 14-day period in which we could have paid the reduced figure is null and void. What else is there to do/say in this circumstance?

thanks for reading!

Could you post up a redacted picture of the original postal Notice to Keeper? (Front & rear, leave all times visible).
Also a legible photo of any site signage.

[A Family man]

Could you post up a redacted picture of the original postal Notice to Keeper? (Front & rear, leave all times visible).
Also a legible photo of any site signage.

Thanks for replying. I've attached a redacted copy. I didn't take any photos of the signage. It was in plain sight, it's not the signage we're arguing over., just the fact that we didn't receive it for 16 days so the 14-day reduced payment is not applicable..

Thank you!

[charitynjw]

Thanks for replying. I've attached a redacted copy. I didn't take any photos of the signage. It was in plain sight, it's not the signage we're arguing over., just the fact that we didn't receive it for 16 days so the 14-day reduced payment is not applicable..

Thank you!

& rear?

[A Family man]

& rear?

sorry.. here it is.

[charitynjw]

sorry.. here it is.

Thank you.

The first thing which is noted is that there is no mention of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, particularly Schedule 4 of the Act (PoFA). It is via that Schedule that liability can be legally transferred from the driver (at the time of alleged contravention) to the keeper of the vehicle.

That said, the Notice must have been served on the registered keeper (RK), as details have been obtained from the DVLA. By definition, the RK is taken to be the vehicle keeper unless the contrary is proved. (PoFA s2(1)).

Imho this leads to a number of possible appeals/defences.
Firstly, if it can be proved that the Notice was served outside of the 14 day window which is indicated in your opening post, the Notice has no effect as regards keeper liability.

Secondly. the Notice doesn't contain the mandatory statutory '28 day' warning as required by PoFA s9(2)(f), necessary to hold the keeper liable.

If it were me I'd appeal as registered keeper (taking care not to ID the driver, even by inference) & state the latter point certainly, & also the former point if proof of the date of delivery can be evidenced.

If an appeal is made via the parking company's online portal, be careful if/when selecting any drop down box which requests selection of the appellant's status (eg, driver, keeper etc.).

If Smart rejects the appeal, they must give a unique code which allows a further appeal to the independant appeals body, POPLA.
All things being equal, the appeal should be successful at that stage.

As a POPLA appeal is free to the appellant but chargeable to the parking company, one would hope that they are as their name implies.....smart....& cancel at the first appeal stage.
Frankly? I wouldn't hold my breath on that one

[A Family man]

Thank you.

The first thing which is noted is that there is no mention of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, particularly Schedule 4 of the Act (PoFA). It is via that Schedule that liability can be legally transferred from the driver (at the time of alleged contravention) to the keeper of the vehicle.

That said, the Notice must have been served on the registered keeper (RK), as details have been obtained from the DVLA. By definition, the RK is taken to be the vehicle keeper unless the contrary is proved. (PoFA s2(1)).

Imho this leads to a number of possible appeals/defences.
Firstly, if it can be proved that the Notice was served outside of the 14 day window which is indicated in your opening post, the Notice has no effect as regards keeper liability.

Secondly. the Notice doesn't contain the mandatory statutory '28 day' warning as required by PoFA s9(2)(f), necessary to hold the keeper liable.

If it were me I'd appeal as registered keeper (taking care not to ID the driver, even by inference) & state the latter point certainly, & also the former point if proof of the date of delivery can be evidenced.

If an appeal is made via the parking company's online portal, be careful if/when selecting any drop down box which requests selection of the appellant's status (eg, driver, keeper etc.).

If Smart rejects the appeal, they must give a unique code which allows a further appeal to the independant appeals body, POPLA.
All things being equal, the appeal should be successful at that stage.

As a POPLA appeal is free to the appellant but chargeable to the parking company, one would hope that they are as their name implies.....smart....& cancel at the first appeal stage.
Frankly? I wouldn't hold my breath on that one

Thanks very much for the info. The initial appeal didn't ask for much info so as soon as I get a reply I shall post and let you know. Thanks for your time and help!!

[A Family man]

Thanks very much for the info. The initial appeal didn't ask for much info so as soon as I get a reply I shall post and let you know. Thanks for your time and help!!

As kind of expected, their response to my appeal didn't actually refer to anything in my reply. Just the following standard email -

"We note the comments in your most recent correspondence and can confirm that we have not received or processed any payment with regards to the above PCN, the current amount of £60.00 remains outstanding. As a gesture of goodwill we have extended the discount period which is now valid until 18.06.2023. Please be advised that if payment is not made by this date, the PCN will continue to progress automatically; initially to full charge, and then on to Debt Recovery. At either stage we will be unable to reinstate the discount period once again."

I haven't paid it so what's my next move?

[charitynjw]

As kind of expected, their response to my appeal didn't actually refer to anything in my reply. Just the following standard email -

"We note the comments in your most recent correspondence and can confirm that we have not received or processed any payment with regards to the above PCN, the current amount of £60.00 remains outstanding. As a gesture of goodwill we have extended the discount period which is now valid until 18.06.2023. Please be advised that if payment is not made by this date, the PCN will continue to progress automatically; initially to full charge, and then on to Debt Recovery. At either stage we will be unable to reinstate the discount period once again."

I haven't paid it so what's my next move?

Tbh, there's not much that you can do at this stage.
The ball is in their court atm.
As you appear to want to dispute the pcn, if it were me I'd keep everything safe & wait to see if a formal letter before claim is issued.
You will almost certainly receive an avalanche of debt collectors' letters & escalating charges....all of which can be safely filed & ignored.
If/when you receive the lbc, post back on this thread.

[A Family man]

Tbh, there's not much that you can do at this stage.
The ball is in their court atm.
As you appear to want to dispute the pcn, if it were me I'd keep everything safe & wait to see if a formal letter before claim is issued.
You will almost certainly receive an avalanche of debt collectors' letters & escalating charges....all of which can be safely filed & ignored.
If/when you receive the lbc, post back on this thread.

Hi,

As expected, we've now received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus who are asking for £170 in full. What's the best course of action? Do we pay this DRP or go back to the original "Smart Parking" company and ask to pay (although it's not possible to do this via their website anymore due to them having passed it on to DRP), I'm still not happy with it as they did not send the original letter within 14 days of the actual "offence"?

I did have the following email response (on the 12/06) after I completed the online appeal -

"Thank you for your recent communication.

We note the comments in your most recent correspondence and can confirm that we have not received or processed any payment with regards to the above PCN, the current amount of £60.00 remains outstanding. As a gesture of goodwill we have extended the discount period which is now valid until 18.06.2023. Please be advised that if payment is not made by this date, the PCN will continue to progress automatically; initially to full charge, and then on to Debt Recovery. At either stage we will be unable to reinstate the discount period once again."

I didn't pay by 18.06 as I'm still not happy with the fine and thought I may get an actual answer to my appeal. I'm assuming they rejected the initial appeal, but I didn't get a notice that they did nor receive the unique code..

As initially stated, we didn't actually receive the original letter through the post issuing the fine until 18/05, 36 days after the offence even though the letter was dated 2/05, 20 days afterwards.

[charitynjw]

Hi,

As expected, we've now received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus who are asking for £170 in full. What's the best course of action? Do we pay this DRP or go back to the original "Smart Parking" company and ask to pay (although it's not possible to do this via their website anymore due to them having passed it on to DRP), I'm still not happy with it as they did not send the original letter within 14 days of the actual "offence"?

I did have the following email response (on the 12/06) after I completed the online appeal -

"Thank you for your recent communication.

We note the comments in your most recent correspondence and can confirm that we have not received or processed any payment with regards to the above PCN, the current amount of £60.00 remains outstanding. As a gesture of goodwill we have extended the discount period which is now valid until 18.06.2023. Please be advised that if payment is not made by this date, the PCN will continue to progress automatically; initially to full charge, and then on to Debt Recovery. At either stage we will be unable to reinstate the discount period once again."

I didn't pay by 18.06 as I'm still not happy with the fine and thought I may get an actual answer to my appeal. I'm assuming they rejected the initial appeal, but I didn't get a notice that they did nor receive the unique code..

As initially stated, we didn't actually receive the original letter through the post issuing the fine until 18/05, 36 days after the offence even though the letter was dated 2/05, 20 days afterwards.

I would not deal with DRP at all