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NTK, 14 day period not met, car parking company still trying to hold me liable.

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  • NTK, 14 day period not met, car parking company still trying to hold me liable.

    I have recently been appealing against an NTK received on the 9th of January 2019. The incident occurred on the 24th Dec 2018, the NTK was issued on the 4th of January 2019. My simple basis for appeal is, it was not delivered to me within the 14-day period as per PoFA 2012 and they used the post service for delivery, so can not hold the keeper liable.

    Below is the reply I have from their solicitors. They say this is their last communication on the matter and that I should pay £170 to avoid legal proceedings. Back in early 2019, I made the same appeal which they never accepted. I then just ignored their letters as I thought I was right and the letters stopped. But they started up again this September and now from a solicitor. I've again launched the same appeal as I did three years ago, to which they have sent me the below

    --------------------

    The Solicitors have advised me via email:

    Please see our Client's correspondence to you attached, which explains that the notice to keeper was in fact in line with POFA 2012.



    Our client maintains the amount of £170 is outstanding. Please pay before 09/01/2023 to avoid further legal proceedings without further notice.


    Below attached letter from the car parking company:

    22ND FEBRUARY 2019

    Dear So and so,

    Parking Charge Reference number: 1234567
    The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 clearly states, “Specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case)”. This is evidenced on our Notice to Owner which states “Issued Date – 4th January 2019”.

    The contravention occurred on 24-12-18, therefore UK Car Park Management had 14 days beginning with the day after the specified period of parking ended to issue the parking charge notice; allowing us 14 days from 25-12-18 to issue the PCN. The above parking charge notice was issued, confirmed and sent on 04-01-2019, therefore taking into account Saturday 5th and Sunday 6th January 2019 as per POFA 2012 which states, “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales”.
    Therefore considering the above, the Notice to Owner is believed to have been received on 08-01-2019 which is within this time frame.

    As previously stated, UK CPM has not been made aware of any postal issues around this time therefore we cannot be held liable for you receiving the parking charge notice outside of the 14-day discounted period.

    We feel we have provided you with sufficient evidence to prove the above parking charge notice has been issued correctly and in line with POFA 2012, therefore we will not be commenting on these matters further.
    ---------------------


    The letter from the parking company makes reference to The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and they say it clearly states, “Specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case)”. And that "This evidenced on our Notice to Owner which states “Issued Date – 4th January 2019”.

    But by my day count below, it still did not meet with PoFA 2012 - Schedule 4 para 9 (5)), which POFA requires the notice is given within 14 days starting with the day after the specified period of parking ended. Including 2 working days if sent by post.
    Dates Days
    24 December 2018 Date of Incident
    25 December 2018 Day 1
    26 December 2018 Day 2
    27 December 2018 Day 3
    28 December 2018 Day 4
    29 December 2018 Day 5
    30 December 2018 Day 6
    31 December 2018 Day 7
    01 January 2019 Day 8
    02 January 2019 Day 9
    03 January 2019 Day 10
    04 January 2019 Day 11
    05 January 2019 Day 12
    06 January 2019 Day 13
    07 January 2019 Day 14
    08 January 2019 Day 15

    Bottom-line, I just want help from any experts, people who more knowledgeable than me in confirming my argument, and reason for appeal are correct and that the keeper can not be held liable as the NTK arrived on the 15th day?

    Thanks
    Tags: None

  • #2


    I would agree your calculations and would respond to the solicitor along the lines of:

    Why do you "believe" a notice received on 8th January 2019 is within the 14 days beginning with the day after the incident?
    I suggest you employ staff who are numerate.

    put in your schedule as in your post above

    Please don't bother me again.
    Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment and reported to the relevant authorities

    Send first class Royal Mail with free certificate of posting from Post Office

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, des8

      So I am in the final stages of this, the next phase I believe they either will or will not bring legal proceedings against me. If they do what do I do?

      Comment


      • #4
        If they initiate court proceedings you either pay up or defend.

        I would defend, but it will be your choice

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Des

          I did what you said, I sent the below and kept the certificate of posting. Sent on the 3rd Jan 2023.

          Dear lala or Enquires Gladstone Solicitor,

          For reference, I have enclosed your recent email and the attached reply from UKCPM dated 22ND FEBRUARY 2019.
          In response to this, why do you "believe" a notice received on 8th January 2019 is within the 14 days beginning with the day after the incident?
          I have for your reference put below how I am working this out below

          Dates Days
          24 December 2018 Date of Incident
          25 December 2018 Day 1
          26 December 2018 Day 2
          27 December 2018 Day 3
          28 December 2018 Day 4
          29 December 2018 Day 5
          30 December 2018 Day 6
          31 December 2018 Day 7
          01 January 2019 Day 8
          02 January 2019 Day 9
          03 January 2019 Day 10
          04 January 2019 Day 11
          05 January 2019 Day12
          06 January 2019 Day 13
          07 January 2019 Day 14
          08 January 2019 Day 15

          Sincerely
          me

          Comment


          • #6
            They didn't reply to the letter. But they sent me the below via email today.

            Dear Me,

            UK Car Park Management Limited -v- Me
            Our Ref: 12345OnceOCaughtAFishAlive
            Balance Outstanding: 170.00

            Thank you for your correspondence, which is noted and apologies for our late response.

            Both our client and colleagues have explained our position on the issuing and delivery of the PCN and to it being POFA compliant, we therefore have nothing to add to this and will no longer respond on this matter from here in.


            Our client is satisfied the PCN was issued correctly and the balance of £170.00 should be paid on or before 29/03/2023. to avoid possible further action.

            Payment can be made via bank transfer to the account detailed as follows:

            Gladstones Solicitors Ltd

            Barclays Bank
            Account Number: 1234567
            Sort Code: 11-11-11
            Reference: 12345
            Amount Due: £170.00

            Alternatively, you can make payment online at www.gladstonessolicitors.co.uk or via the automated payment line on 0333 0230 049 quoting reference
            12345

            In the event you fail to make payment, legal proceedings will be issued without further recourse to you and additional costs will be sought.

            Yours sincerely,

            Comment


            • #7
              oh what fun

              Comment


              • #8
                You could respond, if you wish, and tell them that if they initiate court proceedings you will bring this correspondence to the court's attention and request your costs on the basis of their unreasonable behaviour in pursuing a case which has no merit (cf Clohessy v Homes (2003))

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by des8 View Post
                  You could respond, if you wish, and tell them that if they initiate court proceedings you will bring this correspondence to the court's attention and request your costs on the basis of their unreasonable behaviour in pursuing a case which has no merit (cf Clohessy v Homes (2003))

                  des8 You wouldn't have a transcript, or a link, by any chance?

                  Fair exchange & all that.
                  https://becket-chambers.co.uk/2017/0...-claims-track/

                  #####
                  CAVEAT LECTOR

                  This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                  You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                  Cohen, Herb


                  There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                  gets his brain a-going.
                  Phelps, C. C.


                  "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                  The last words of John Sedgwick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks, Dan, are there any institutions, or services I can report this to?

                    What do you think of the below reply?

                    Dear So and So

                    To both my communications sent (##/##/#### and ##/##/####), see the above both attached, you or your client have not directly answered my question.

                    The question is: How do you calculate a PCN dated 04/01/2019, with the date of incident 24/12/2018 to have been given to me via post within 14 days?

                    If court proceedings are initiated, I will bring your correspondence to the court's attention and request your costs based on their unreasonable behaviour in pursuing a case which has no merit (cf Clohessy v Homes (2003))

                    From me

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ssns View Post
                      Thanks, Dan, are there any institutions, or services I can report this to?

                      What do you think of the below reply?

                      Dear So and So

                      To both my communications sent (##/##/#### and ##/##/####), see the above both attached, you or your client have not directly answered my question.

                      The question is: How do you calculate a PCN dated 04/01/2019, with the date of incident 24/12/2018 to have been given to me via post within 14 days?

                      If court proceedings are initiated, I will bring your correspondence to the court's attention and request your costs based on their unreasonable behaviour in pursuing a case which has no merit (cf Clohessy v Homes (2003))

                      From me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Beware Elliott v Loake.
                        CAVEAT LECTOR

                        This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                        You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                        Cohen, Herb


                        There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                        gets his brain a-going.
                        Phelps, C. C.


                        "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                        The last words of John Sedgwick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Aye, but at the moment they are only considering SSNS as keeper and referencing PoFA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by des8 View Post
                            Aye, but at the moment they are only considering SSNS as keeper and referencing PoFA
                            ####
                            CAVEAT LECTOR

                            This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                            Cohen, Herb


                            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                            gets his brain a-going.
                            Phelps, C. C.


                            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                            The last words of John Sedgwick

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I could just stay quiet and say and do nothing. My thinking with this action is: If there were any legitimacy with their standpoint I'm pretty sure a case going back to 2018 which mine is, would have had me in court already. Right?

                              I mean, I've been arguing the same point since 2019.

                              Mind it is a form of harassment emailing me or sending me letters tactically each month in the hope that I get fed up and just pay a fee I by law should not pay, hence why I was asking is there any institution, or service I can start a complaint again them.

                              Comment

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