Britannia Parking / BWLegal - PCN Advice

[RSG1997]

"To BW Legal:
May I please request under Box I:

• A true copy of the agreement between the landowner (or their authorised agent) & Britannia which - allegedly gives Britannia authority to operate on the relevant land, redacted only as strictly necessary.
• A true copy of the KADOE agreement between Britannia & DVLA.
• A map of the relevant land detailing positions of all site signage
• A true copy of planning permission for the erection of site signs.
• A true copy of all site signs which Britannia propose to use in evidence.
• Details of the device used to capture the relevant photographic images of the vehicle.

I am not prepared to accept letters of authority which purport to give authority. I require early disclosure of actual copies in order for me to assess my legal position &, if necessary, obtain legal advice. I am not going to accept being ambushed by production of evidence for the first time in a court hearing also.

Regards,"

Will sign it also and yes they most likely will seeing how they responded to my email saying they are not willing to disclose information in regards to a map of the site and the agreement, thank you i most definitely will !

[RSG1997]

"Dear -,

Can you please confirm the PCN number, Vehicle registration and your address at the time of the contravention, so I can search our system.

Currently the only information I have to go by is your surname and the returned results are too large to narrow it down without the extra information.

Please be aware the one calendar month period to responding to your SAR begins when we receive the additional information.

Thank you


Kind Regards,

-- "

Finally a response on the SAR, Is this my responsibility to provide this ;D don't wanna be doing their job for them

[charitynjw]

"Dear -,

Can you please confirm the PCN number, Vehicle registration and your address at the time of the contravention, so I can search our system.

Currently the only information I have to go by is your surname and the returned results are too large to narrow it down without the extra information.

Please be aware the one calendar month period to responding to your SAR begins when we receive the additional information.

Thank you


Kind Regards,

-- "

Finally a response on the SAR, Is this my responsibility to provide this ;D don't wanna be doing their job for them

I would just give the info......no point in not doing so, 'cos it'll only give them an excuse for not responding.
Make sure to tell them you are the registered keeper.

[RSG1997]

Sent a response to both. Got the letter on recorded post to BW Legal two days ago and yesterday the below came through from them, i am assuming to wait for them to response to my debt claim form first as i beat them too it ? Also their PAP is different to the one on .gov, more personalised i guess.

[RSG1997]

Hey Guys,

I have a response from the SAR i sent to Britannia:

"Good Morning



Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted on file.



1. Our Client's cause of action is that you breached the terms and conditions of the contract which you entered into by parking your vehicle in the car park for longer than the maximum time permitted.



2. Our Client is pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle.



3. Our Client does intend to rely on Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.



4. The details of the claim are that your vehicle parked for longer than the maximum time permitted.
The £100.00 charge is regarded as a charge for contravening the Terms and Conditions. The sum payable following the issue of the PCN occurs on the happening of a specific event (i.e. a material breach of the Terms and Conditions) and is therefore a core term of Our Client's contract with you.

It is irrelevant whether or not the charge as displayed bears any relation to the cost for parking (even where there is no cost involved). Our Client relies on the leading authority of ParkingEye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, where the Supreme Court held that PCN charges, like this charge, serve a legitimate commercial interest. The relevant car parking Codes of Practice, also give guidance that £100.00 is a reasonable sum to charge.

The signage in situ makes provision for Our Client to recover any additional costs (Contractual Costs) incurred by them in relation to the PCN. The Contractual Costs referred to above formed part of the Terms and Conditions (of the parking contract) which were accepted by you in the course of staying at the car park. Save for the fact that the sum of £60.00 attributable towards these costs are entirely reasonable for nature and type of work involved in recovering the parking charge, such costs are recoverable under the relevant parking code of practice.



5. The Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which you have been issued with is for a breach of contract. The only right which you have to enter the land in question are on the terms and conditions which apply. It is unnecessary to apply an analysis of offer, acceptance and consideration quite simply because the contract was formed on mutual promises. By parking your vehicle in the car park you have entered into a unilateral contract with Our Client. Acceptance does not have to be communicated, the act of parking your vehicle is acceptance.



6. Our Client is under no obligation to supply this.



7. As established members of the British Parking Association, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks ('Code of Practice'). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.



8. £100.00 remains unpaid for the Parking Charge Notice. Additionally, you are also liable for our £60.00 instructions fee as your file has been passed to us. Please find attached copies of the correspondence our client sent to you.



9. Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.



10. Please find attached photographic evidence of the vehicle.



We trust this now concludes any outstanding queries you had raised with ourselves. It is important that you now contact us in order to discuss an affordable payment arrangement.



Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact our office on 0113 487 0432.



Kind Regards,



bwlegal"


The documents included were the images of the registrations and the same PCN's that i have included with the final reminder letter.

I am still awaiting a response for the PAP i have sent and i have not completed the one they sent as i already sent one before their version arrived. Hopefully that isnt an issue.

[charitynjw]

That letter is their standard bogroll template nonsense that they always send out.

I'll have a squint back through your thread.

[charitynjw]

For now, send them the following:-

Dear sirs

Re [Your letter/email], reference no [xxxxx] dated [yyyyyy]

Thank you for your recent response to my request.

I note that you state (regarding the landowner/Britannia contract/agreement

"9. Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence."

For completeness, please advise me which of the parties to the contract is a solicitor (or similar), & what is their SRA registration number?

I expect a reply within 7 days of your receipt of this communication.

Yours sincerely

RSG1997
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

For your info

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_...onal_privilege

[RSG1997]

Thank you will get this sent out to them today ! , sorry been without a computer for a few days, been hectic. Is this to buy me more time ?

[charitynjw]

Thank you will get this sent out to them today ! , sorry been without a computer for a few days, been hectic. Is this to buy me more time ?

No.

They have claimed an exemption of legal privilege in not disclosing the landowner/parking co contract.

That is only available between a solicitor & a client, & even then only in certain circumstances. (Legal professional priv & litigation priv)

So which is the sol, Britannia or landowner/agent?

& was the contract formed with that type of privilege in mind?

[RSG1997]

Damn your a smart cookie

Makes me want to learn more into Law but seems there is a lot of variables, literature and knowledge to take into account to get started. Looking forward to their response and thank you for helping so much ! I have learnt quiet a bit so far also in regards to POFA and other acts.

[charitynjw]

Damn your a smart cookie

Makes me want to learn more into Law but seems there is a lot of variables, literature and knowledge to take into account to get started. Looking forward to their response and thank you for helping so much ! I have learnt quiet a bit so far also in regards to POFA and other acts.

My dad was always interested in law.

Guess I'm just a chocolate chip off the old block!

[RSG1997]

Must be ! haha

Finally got a response back from BW Legal. Literary copied and pasted what they previously stated in the email before:

"Good Afternoon



Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted on file.



Please be aware that the contract you referred to in your previous correspondence is a contract between Our Client and the landowner of the site. This contract is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.



We trust this now concludes any outstanding queries you had raised with ourselves. It is important that you now contact us in order to discuss an affordable payment arrangement.



Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact our office on 0113 487 0432.



Kind Regards,



bwlegal"

[charitynjw]

Must be ! haha

Finally got a response back from BW Legal. Literary copied and pasted what they previously stated in the email before:

"Good Afternoon



Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been ̶n̶o̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶f̶i̶l̶e̶.̶ totally ignored & probably binned!



Please be aware that the contract you referred to in your previous correspondence is a contract between Our Client and the landowner of the site. This contract is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.



We trust this now concludes any outstanding queries you had raised with ourselves. It is important that you now contact us in order to discuss an affordable payment arrangement.



Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact our office on 0113 487 0432.



Kind Regards,



bwlegal"

I've fixed their response for them.

Fairly obviously it is a one-size-fits-all templated reply to anyone who has the temerity to ask for disclosure.

I wouldn't bother responding to it again.

Just make sure it is 'writ large' in any statement of defence filed at court.

[RSG1997]

That sounds a lot more accurate now !

So now just sit and wait for them to progress this to a further stage ?

I am assuming by wit large you mean to highlight their response declining answering my request in court if it progresses to that stage, would this support my defence i take it ?

[ostell]

You query how it can be legally privileged when they state that they will produce it in court I you can only assume that it contains matters detrimental to their case.