Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

[jamieb22222]

Hi I'm looking for some help please!?

I received a requisition to appear in court on 25/02/2016 to answer to the charge that on 05/08/2015 i was the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark WU03LUJ which did not meet the requirements contrary to section 144A(1) of the road traffic act 1988.

I sold this vehicle on 19/03/2015 and sent the V5C/3 to DVLA the day after sale via 1st class post. I have a photocopy of the V5C/3 but no record of sending it

To cut a long story short, I went to court yesterday and pleaded NOT GUILTY they basically said that because i had not contacted DVLA after 4 weeks of not receiving a confirmation letter that i was responsible of the vehicle and will most likely be found guilty.

The case has been adjourned until 14/04/2016.

I have been offered by dvla to pay a fine of £100 to settle it out of court but i feel that i am not guilty.

Any help on what i should do?

Thanks Jamie

[R0b]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

Hi Jamie,

see this thread for help http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...t=stuffedagain

[jamieb22222]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

Thanks for your reply Rob, I'm just looking through it now.

I sent DVLA a letter and a photocopy of the v5c/3 explaining that i sold the vehicle on 19/03/2015

They responded with a letter saying that they have amended the records to show that i ceased to be the keeper of the vehicle from 19/03/2015 and that any statutory notice for a offence/contravention that took place after i sold the vehicle should be returned to the issuing authority giving what details i can about the sale of the vehicle.

Surely this letter is Dvla acknowledging that i wasn't the registered keeper on 05/08/2015?

[R0b]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

Yes it would, but the DVLA are persistent in chasing for monies and threaten legal action until people either cough up or have the guts to defend. The fact that they have acknowledged and amended the records is proof that that you sent your letter to them. You could respond to them by saying that as they have amended the records which is acknolwedgment that you are no longer the registered keeper. They will no doubt sen you a template from one of their systems saying that it is your responsibility to inform them and any backdated amendment does not count and you are still liable or something along those lines, as I've had them myself over 12 months ago and not heard anything since.

Keep a hold of that letter safe or take a copy just in case they try to take you to court on it.

[jamieb22222]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

I sent the proof of the v5c/3 before I had the court letter.

A few months before I received the court letter i received a parking charge from a council (This was when i realised the vehicle was still in my name) so I sent the photocopy of the v5c/3 and letter explaining that I sold the vehicle on 19/03/2015.

I ignored the letters for the parking charge because it wasn't my vehicle so I felt like I shouldn't have to pay it I now have the ballifs chasing me for the fine

[R0b]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

Sorry just to clarify who said you will likely be found guilty for not contacting DVLA within 4 weeks? The court or the DVLA.. If they were so confident of getting a conviction not sure why they are are offering 100 quid to settle out of court. The link I posted is an example of the same position you are in. There is no obligation required to contact the DVLA which has been confirmed by the DVLA before and in other court cases. Did the DVLA say that in court or was it out of court to you?

[jamieb22222]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

The person who said I was likely to be found guilty was the legal advisor sat in front of the 2 magistrates, the prosecutor from DVLA offered me the £100 fine in a room before the court, and the legal advisor asked him in court whether he was happy to offer me the opportunity of paying the fine before the next court date.

My friend who came with me stood up and said that the legal advisor and prosecutor where ganging up on me to pressure me into pleading guilty but the magistrates told him to sit down

[R0b]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

I see, well bit of bias there from the legal advisor I think. If you honestly sent the V5C and a copy of it dated then it's down to you whether you defend of pay the fine.

The there is plenty of court cases where the DVLA has tried to prosecute claiming never receiving the letter but the courts have gone against them saying that there is no legal obligation to contact the DVLA and if you are well prepared then the DVLA will likely drop the case. If you are convicted and fined then you would want to consider an appeal as it's never been appealed before on the basis that the DVLA has dropped cases before offering no evidence as there is a high chance they could lose and set a precedent on the matter, something they would like to avoid.

Your defence is s.7 of the interpretation act which states that you need only post it by first class post and that's as far as your obligations go. DVLA gets so much post there's a good chance that they lose or misplace post and has been proven previously that they do lose post.

The choice is yours and if you want to defend I can help you prepare as best you can on it and it might also be worth writing a letter to the DVLA of your intention to defend and they may drop it

[jamieb22222]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

Ok thankyou Rob I have found a tread with a template letter from someone called militant, stating s.7 of the interpretation act. I'm going to edit it to my details and send it to DVLA

[jamieb22222]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

I have completed my letter, Is there anything on it that you would change? Thanks

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

The person who said I was likely to be found guilty was the legal advisor sat in front of the 2 magistrates, the prosecutor from DVLA offered me the £100 fine in a room before the court, and the legal advisor asked him in court whether he was happy to offer me the opportunity of paying the fine before the next court date.

My friend who came with me stood up and said that the legal advisor and prosecutor where ganging up on me to pressure me into pleading guilty but the magistrates told him to sit down

Hi Jamie,

Are you saying the Magistrate sided with DVLA's prosecutor and the legal advisor (who advises the Magistrates with regards to points of law) when your friend said "that the legal advisor and prosecutor where ganging up on me to pressure me into pleading guilty." Ask the Magistrate can your friend aid you in court as your McKenzie Friend, based on case law. If the Magistrate refuses, ask for reasons. From McKenzie the case principal is that someone else is permitted to 'quietly whisper advice' to a litigant in person (ie you). Remember under criminal law when cross examining someone too, you must do it with tact otherwise you will be treated by the Magistrate/ legal advisor/ DVLA prosecutor 'adversely' (ie harshly)..as an adverse party/ witness. If your friend were permitted a McKenzie benefit then you can consult with him/ her, whom can then tell you in whispers what to say, as well as take notes, access the evidence that the prosecution has. Say, 'Sir/ Madam (if male or female), may I approach the Magistrate and explain the situation as I believe I am not being granted a fair hearing by the courts, which according to Thomas Bingham (very important judge) in his rule of law lecture as being the mark of a democratic institution in this modern democratic country. Hope this helps.

[jamieb22222]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

No, the magistrates didn't say much, it was the legal advisor and prosecutor that we felt was teaming up on me.

I received the attached letter yesterday.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

No, the magistrates didn't say much, it was the legal advisor and prosecutor that we felt was teaming up on me.

I received the attached letter yesterday.

Jamie

Tell me the nature of the type of defence you have used thus far. Why has the case been adjourned? Are you going to pay for a brief, is this why you have an adjournment?

[jamieb22222]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

I haven't used any defence yet, all they said in the court is the statement from the dvla prosecutor that I was the registered keeper on the date of no insurance. Then the legal advisor asked if I plead guilty or not guilty. So I replied not guilty. She then said that because I hadn't responded to a confirmation letter that the vehicle was still my responsibility on the date of offence and from what she's heard I will most likely be found guilty and that I should seek legal advice which could cost a lot.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Court for no insurance on a vehicle i sold 5 months before charge. Please help

I haven't used any defence yet, all they said in the court is the statement from the dvla prosecutor that I was the registered keeper on the date of no insurance. Then the legal advisor asked if I plead guilty or not guilty. So I replied not guilty. She then said that because I hadn't responded to a confirmation letter that the vehicle was still my responsibility on the date of offence and from what she's heard I will most likely be found guilty and that I should seek legal advice which could cost a lot.

Ahh, ok so this is just the preliminary hearing? You should have said 'found guilty without a hearing', perhaps you can tell the future and are too good to be a lawyer. No, am being sarcastic don't say that ha ha.

- - - Updated - - -

Ahh, ok so this is just the preliminary hearing? You should have said 'found guilty without a hearing', perhaps you can tell the future and are too good to be a lawyer. No, am being sarcastic don't say that ha ha.

Legal Aid has been cut since the 2012 relevant Act, what this means for you if you successfully argue your case, you can claim your costs (ie for Magistrates only).