Failure to notify - Entrapment?

[Galahad]

This is a naughty one by DVLA, and i've never heard of them trying to enforce this before, and I won't be letting them off the hook in any case, but heres the details of the problem.

I bought a Porsche off a customer, its a wreck, interesting number plate, but thats about all its got going for it. Customer didn't have the logbook, he's disposing of the vehicle for the owner who is now in a care home as he has severe alzheimers. I know the guy i'm dealing with, theres nothing untoward going on.

He tries to get ahold of the logbook for me, but no-one can find it, I tell him its not an issue, i'll stump up the £27 and apply for a new one, and then when i'm finished with the car, I can dispose of it and no scrapyard will be concerned.

All good.

So I apply for the logbook.

I get a letter telling me it will be processed on X date. I know what this is for, at the same time they send me a letter informing me that, they also send a letter to the registered keeper informing them that someone is applying for the logbook.

And here is where I believe Entrapment is now being used.

The letter they send to the registered keeper basically informs them that someone is applying for the logbook, and that if there is no problem or issue, they can ignore the letter and in 10 days or so, the DVLA will allow the person applying for the logbook to get one issued. Obviously if there is a problem, they are to contact the DVLA immediately where they will put a stop on the whole process.

Emminently sensible so that people can't just apply for logbooks on a whim.

So obviously, the family of the registered keeper do nothing, 10 days later, I get the logbook.

Huzzah and hooray, thats it right?

Wrong!

Now the DVLA have sent a letter to the now previous registered keeper telling them that there is an offence of Failure to Notify and that they have to pay a £35 fine, increased to X amount if they don't pay up promptly.

Now, its quite easy to dodge this one, simply writing a letter back stating that they did inform DVLA and that by posting said notification to the DVLA with correct address and postage deems the action completed and DVLA served.

So i'm not worried about that, but how in the hell can they do this?

For one, they HAVE been informed by the sheer fact i'm applying for the logbook.

Secondly, they send a letter to the registered keeper telling them that if there is no issue with the application for a logbook, to do nothing and ignore the letter.

At no point does it go onto to explain the offence of Failure to Notify if they ignore the letter.

Surely thats Entrapment?

[Johnboy007]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

Technically the owner of a vehicle must notify DVLA, straight away if it is transferred to a new owner.

This is from www.gov.uk web site
If you don’t have a V5C registration certificate (log book) write to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AR giving the:

• vehicle registration mark
• make and model
• exact date of sale
• name and address of the new keeper
• your signature

Obviously the previous owner has severe alzheimers, and is a care home.
And is very unlikely to be able to complete a V5C, or be able to remember where the original V5C is.
Could you not get the family of the previous owner to write to the DVLA, stating his medical condition and asking them to cancel the penalty charge.
They may have to send a medical certificate from hid doctor to back up the statement.
The other point I would like to make is, that it is the registered keeper/owner who is responsible for notifying DVLA.
In view of the poor man's condition, DVLA would have a very difficult time in taking him to court for the penalty charge.
Under the circumstances, it is very doubtful if they would even try.
DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AR is the address to write to.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

duplicate

[Galahad]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

Technically the owner of a vehicle must notify DVLA, straight away if it is transferred to a new owner.

This is from www.gov.uk web site
If you don’t have a V5C registration certificate (log book) write to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AR giving the:

• vehicle registration mark
• make and model
• exact date of sale
• name and address of the new keeper
• your signature

Obviously the previous owner has severe alzheimers, and is a care home.
And is very unlikely to be able to complete a V5C, or be able to remember where the original V5C is.
Could you not get the family of the previous owner to write to the DVLA, stating his medical condition and asking them to cancel the penalty charge.
They may have to send a medical certificate from hid doctor to back up the statement.
The other point I would like to make is, that it is the registered keeper/owner who is responsible for notifying DVLA.
In view of the poor man's condition, DVLA would have a very difficult time in taking him to court for the penalty charge.
Under the circumstances, it is very doubtful if they would even try.
DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1AR is the address to write to.

Thanks for the reply, but getting him off the fine is easy and not an issue. I'm more concerned about the issue of not notifying at the time of telling the previous owner that someone is applying for the logbook that they are liable for a fine if they don't notify DVLA themselves.

Ask yourself this question, as this is generally what the courts go by.

When I applied for the logbook, I provided the following.

1) Vehicle registration mark
2). Make and Model
3). Date of application/sale
4). Name and address of new keeper
5). My signature.

Now as a reasonable person, why would the DVLA think it correct and just to fine someone, when the information that they require has been provided? That it hasn't been provided by the registered keeper is frankly of no consequence, the information they need to proceed, has been provided.

A reasonable person would consider that the DVLA have been informed...... so why the need to push for a fine?

[des8]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

A reasonable person would consider that the DVLA have been informed...... so why the need to push for a fine?

To increase the coffers

[Johnboy007]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

To increase the coffers

You are probably right here Des.
Some bloody jobsworth sitting in an office trying to justify his job, no doubt.
Problem is, it's the rule that the owner must notify DVLA of change of ownership, that needs to be amended.

[righty]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

The 'fine' could be £1,000

[des8]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

Lets get sensible here.
If a person is incapable they cannot be sued:The Mental Capacity Act 2005
DVLA can go nowhere with this..... just shows how incompetent they are.

[enquirer]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

If a person is incapable they cannot be sued:The Mental Capacity Act 2005
DVLA can go nowhere with this..... just shows how incompetent they are.

That probably won't stop them.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

It's just the extra grief that is suddenly pushed onto the family, at a time when they really don't need it.:tinysmile_cry_t:

[bizzybob]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

It's just the extra grief that is suddenly pushed onto the family, at a time when they really don't need it.:tinysmile_cry_t:

Send the details of this into BBC Watchdog, they have an ongoing dossier on DVLA stupidity and vexatious litigation.

[Bitterend]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

I totally agree with the OP. The DVLA are not the only government departments who are applying these ambiguous and catch 22 rules in order to issue a fixed penalty fine. local authorities are also very good at it.
I call it 'Taxation by Penalisation'

[sean5302]

Re: Failure to notify - Entrapment?

Except that the DVLA has no power to fine anyone.
They can issue fixed penalties and try to take people to court, if they wish.
In cases like this, they'd just be wasting their time and money.