Help with V888. Legal issues also.

[VanillaCustard]

I am trying to trace and get some paperwork relating to a car that has been taken by someone who wasn`t entitled to, you could say stolen but I`m not sure the police/courts would/could get involved until I have paperwork.
My cousin died intestate one year ago and my mother has probate (grant of administration). I have dealt with all the banks, insurance etc on her behalf. It is only a small estate, hence only having legal help with probate, I am dealing with all other admin.
When he died his ex-wife`s family cleared out all his possessions, including his car and they have kept all documents relating to that. It is possible they have registered it in their names or sold it.
After contacting DVLA via their email facility online, (no response to a letter and phones always busy) I have been told to fill out V888.
I downloaded two of those and my thoughts were that, as the legal owner (my mother) that gives us `reasonable cause` I would say, to have copies of log books. One for perhaps a month before his death and one for today`s date?
Does that sound like the best way to get the info? DVLA want to know how you will use the information- well it may well be for litigation purposes eventually but should I just put that we want to trace who has illegally taken the car?
We don`t have an invoice, registration number or any other details but we know they asked their solicitor about a car and he directed them to the DVLA. Our solicitor asked them for the documents and they said they had left them with their solicitor, which was one of many lies they have told since his death.
I intend to send DVLA the proof of address they require but also a copy of probate as this shows a legal right to have info regarding the deceased.
Has anyone sent for info with a V888, I was wondering if they can send copies of log books or do they just list the owner at the date you give? I really could do with the full log book so I can see the dealer he bought the car from to get a copy of the original bill of sale.
Sorry this is so long and complicated, I know it`s a tangled web. Any input and ideas appreciated.

[charitynjw]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

Hi

It would appear that they (DVLA) will supply, at least, the details of the RK at the time of death, together with previous RKs.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...341/MIS546.pdf

[VanillaCustard]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

Hi

It would appear that they (DVLA) will supply, at least, the details of the RK at the time of death, together with previous RKs.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...341/MIS546.pdf

Ah thanks, that`s helpful. I didn`t see that when looking through DVLA pages. Also I note they say `A copy of any documents confirming your appointment of administrator` When I told them I was sending this they replied with the standard - Proof we need - bill from last 3 months with address etc Good job I was going to ignore them and send both anyway.
I note they say they will need reg/make/model. which is what we don`t have currently.

[charitynjw]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

Tbh, if it was me as executor, I would report it to the police, get a non-emergency incident number & send details of this to DVLA along with the other docs they need.
The fact that the executor/representor is responsible for ensuring the accurate administration of the estate is all the justification I'd need.

[VanillaCustard]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

Tbh, if it was me as executor, I would report it to the police, get a non-emergency incident number & send details of this to DVLA along with the other docs they need.
The fact that the executor/representor is responsible for ensuring the accurate administration of the estate is all the justification I'd need.

That is also good advice. I`m just wondering if DVLA can search for the last vehicle he had using his name and address, or if they will? Maybe someone who has used the system may know, but I know our circumstance is probably a rare one.
I was holding off contacting the police as I was trying to get some evidence on paper but also it appears that some money may be missing from a bank account, I am waiting for the bank to explain why the balance at date of death differs from what they have paid out- and have of course asked for bank statements. I did think if money had been taken then I will definitely be contacting the police.

[wales01man]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

Think as the DVLA ask for the reg number on the form they will only supply info against that not a name and address

[charitynjw]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

The police will definitely have access to the DVLA database.
& tracking down miscreants is a big part of their job!

[VanillaCustard]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

The police will definitely have access to the DVLA database.

My thoughts over the last few weeks, and after reading issues that folks have had with registered keeper being different from legal owner, is that the police would just say it is a civil matter? Especially as we have no documents at all for the vehicle. The only proof I have is a statement from their solicitor saying they asked about the car and the email traffic between solicitors saying they have given all docs but their solicitor saying they havn`t.
The thing is, if it`s an old banger they can have it, I`m not travelling half way across the country to pick up something worth a few hundred quid. BUT, he got a big pension payout 2 years ago at 60, the one thing he loved was driving and cars and there is not much money left in his accounts, so I am thinking, what would he have treated himself to? Logic tells me a nice vehicle and I doubt they would have helped themselves to it if it was a rusty old heap.

[charitynjw]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

It is not just a civil matter, it is suspected theft.
& if so there will be a paper trail.
The police have far better access to data than us.
I'd be jumping up & down on them, & if needed I'd be on to the Chief Constable.
(Don't laugh......I even did so to sort out an alleged speeding offence. Case dropped. )

[VanillaCustard]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

It is not just a civil matter, it is suspected theft.
& if so there will be a paper trail.
The police have far better access to data than us.
I'd be jumping up & down on them, & if needed I'd be on to the Chief Constable.
(Don't laugh......I even did so to sort out an alleged speeding offence. Case dropped. )

I like it
This brings up a whole new can of issues about when police say things are a civil matter.

If i get evidence from the bank, (over £2K difference in the stated balances at death, provided last September and what they have put in closing statement) Then there is def a case to answer. I have spent last 2 months trying to work out how to get details of car.
I know the full name and address of his ex-step daughter and her partner who have taken it, as well as all the goods in his flat and kept the proceeds. I`ve been trying to play detective. I don`t see why DVLA can`t do a search on an address?

[des8]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

As [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] report the theft of all the goods to the police.
It is not just a civil matter.
The police should be able to obtain derails of the vehicle using your cousin's details.

What right do his ex's family claim to have to remove his possessions ahead of the administrator? None.

[seduraed]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

H available a thought which might give you the regulated number. That is assuming that you don't have any old receipts or similar. Ask the bank as executor for the last 12 months of statements. That should throw up who the car was insured with. You can write to them asking for a copy of the insurance certificate. May cost a few quid by should be worth it. I'm not sure whether a subject access request (sar)is appropriate as the subject of the data is deceased.

[VanillaCustard]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

H available a thought which might give you the regulated number. That is assuming that you don't have any old receipts or similar. Ask the bank as executor for the last 12 months of statements. That should throw up who the car was insured with. You can write to them asking for a copy of the insurance certificate. May cost a few quid by should be worth it. I'm not sure whether a subject access request (sar)is appropriate as the subject of the data is deceased.

Thank you. That is good thinking. I have already asked his bank for statements going back to his 60th BD, my thought was to see payment for a car that he would have purchased with his pension lump sum. I never thought of insurance.
As I understand it, SAR doesn`t count for deceased but as administrator of estate I am pretty sure you have rights to paperwork.
We are very limited with paperwork, as his ex-family started procedure to start administration with a solicitor, after telling my elderly, aged 81 (and not the brightest, bless her for trusting everyone) mother (at the funeral), that he was in debt and there was no money. They said to her, quote `You will get a phone call from a solicitor about a piece of paper you will have to sign because you are next of kin`
`Oh OK`, she says. She actually said to me, ` I don`t have to pay his debts do I?`
I answered their solicitor saying we would be dealing with it. Ex family were livid. Abused my old mum on the phone. Their solicitor actually sent my mum their bill, which she paid without me knowing, which I also am going to make a complaint about.
There is a few thousand pounds, which I knew there would be, but the sum we have paid solicitor on a small estate is enough If I had got them to do any more, or chase the car etc, the amount left wouldn`t even cover my postage costs.
There are no receipts and limited paperwork because all we got was what they had given their solicitor and was posted from them to ours.
So bank, annuities, water rates, housing assoc., DWP and local authority pension.
Then when his bank wrote a letter to our solicitor last September, listing his 4x accounts and balance at date of death (April). I see now, after they have sent a final statement and paid the sum into my mum`s account, that the balances have over £2K missing. There is one account that is down for the cost of the funeral, but that works out. Two other accounts don`t tally, there is less than the amount stated at date of death.
Everything takes so long to sort, because I have to do it by post, take it to mother to sign, then the following week she brings me her mail....
Anyway, you have all been so helpful. I appreciate any other bits of advice anyone else can think of.

[VanillaCustard]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

Tbh, if it was me as executor, I would report it to the police, get a non-emergency incident number & send details of this to DVLA along with the other docs they need.
The fact that the executor/representor is responsible for ensuring the accurate administration of the estate is all the justification I'd need.

Got an incident number from the police. They said they would follow up (via Action Fraud, whatever that is) if it turns out that money has gone from bank after death but they were quite adamant that an argument over goods relating to probate is not a police matter and is something that a solicitor would have to get involved in. So I will see what proof I can get first of all and go from there. (From DVLA/ insurance / car dealer) But it`s not looking hopeful. I really don`t want to line the solicitors pockets any more

[charitynjw]

Re: Help with V888. Legal issues also.

If it were me I'd fire off a complaint email to the Chief Constable (in your mother's name as executor, or in your's with a signed consent letter), outlining brief details of the attempt to report a suspected theft of property, & the response which was given.
Make reference to s1 Theft Act 1968.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/section/1
& see what comes back.
http://www.ceoemail.com/uk-police-chiefs.php