Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[mystery1]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

As your existing points are off this month, looks like you are going to avoid losing your licence.

Sadly not. It's the date of the offence that matters.

M1

[des8]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

Sorry, I should ave said "might avoid"

From: http://www.drivingban.co.uk/drivingb...totting_up_ban
Some of my points expire before my Court appearance. Will I still face a totting up ban?

Yes. The Court will consider the number of points that you had at the time of the offence. If points expire before the Court hearing, they can still be taken into account if they were valid at the time the offence was committed.
My points were due to expire shortly after the most recent offence was committed. Will the Court take this into account?

In theory, no. However, if the appropriate exceptional hardship submission is put forward, most Courts will take into account the dates of the offences when considering whether or not to exercise discretion. The Court needs to consider the complete history as well as the implications. What emphasis the Court puts on that information is entirely discretionary.

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

Sorry [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] and [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION], I've only just seen your comments!

Usually she would have been driving, but because of pregnancy she was in quite a bit of pain in her stomach. We weren't on the way to hospital, we had dropped my daughter back to her mums and were not far from home. We had had a few issues thinking she had lost the baby and had an emergency scan but that was weeks ago previous to this. We were still on a knife-edge about it.

I thought I had been covered by my own fully-comp insurance, which I believe I was up to the point it renewed (my problem as i didn't read thoroughly enough).

My points have come off today, but obviously I am aware that they could still be used against me in the courts.

It's now 6 months + 2 days since the offence, and nothing has been received from the courts/police at all?

[mystery1]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

They still have time to send the paperwork although they do not have time to "lay" the information with the courts.

In theory you could phone the courts and ask but i'd leave that thought until next week, personally.

M1

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] papers recieved today for 18th December. How do I find out when they lodged the papers with the court? Does the 6 month period begin from the time I received the ticket on the day of being stopped?

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=30456]wales01man[/MENTION] anything you may be able to assist on too please?

[wales01man]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

Been told its six months from date of offence till its presented to the court worth double checking though

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=30456]wales01man[/MENTION] I will be checking the date when I get back home and will post redacted pictures so things are easier to look at.

[des8]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

The Court will always confirm the date papers were received from the Police, i.e.Date Information Laid, so if you are in any doubt about the validity of the papers, check this date with the court.

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

The Court will always confirm the date papers were received from the Police, i.e.Date Information Laid, so if you are in any doubt about the validity of the papers, check this date with the court.

I will have a look when I'm back then. If it took them longer than 6 months then what happens?

[des8]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

I would assume you defence is one of "out of time", or "Statute barred"

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] using the cps.gov.uk website it states:

"Section 6 provides a special time limit for offences listed in Column 3, Schedule 1 RTOA 1988, and for aiding and abetting those offences.When it applies, proceedings must be brought within six months from the date on which sufficient evidence came to the knowledge of the prosecutor to warrant proceedings but, in any event, they must not be brought more than three years after the commission of the offence.
Section 6 applies to the following offences under the RTA:

• using an uninsured motor vehicle (section 143)

Section 37 of the Vehicles (Crime) Act 2001 amends the time limit in the Theft Act 1968, so that proceedings relating to the unauthorised taking of a mechanically propelled vehicle may be commenced at any time within six months from the date on which sufficient evidence to bring a prosecution came to the knowledge of the prosecutor. It is also subject to the general requirement that any prosecution must be brought within three years of the offence taking place.
Under section 6(3) a certificate signed by or on behalf of the prosecutor, stating the date on which the necessary evidence came to his knowledge, is conclusive evidence of that fact. Such a certificate is deemed under sub-section (4) to have been so signed unless the contrary is proved.
In deciding whether to rely on the extended time limit, you should ensure that you are able to ascertain the date on which sufficient evidence to warrant proceedings came to the knowledge of a police officer investigating the incident, since this is a requirement of the procedure."

My question to that is would sufficient evidence to prosecute start on the day I was pulled over as there clearly was sufficient evidence following the checks the police officer did?

[des8]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

Did you admit the offence when you were pulled? That may be sufficient, but from your posts I suspect you thought you were insured.
The police need information of evidential standard, and if that was obtained from the MIB, and the company you thought was insuring you, there would have been delays.

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=30456]wales01man[/MENTION] [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION]

Just got home and had a read through, and there is no date on anything that has been sent.

I have attached pictures of the most relevant pages, and the only thing that sticks out to me is a witness statement dated 1/12/15. The offence where I was pulled over and given a NIP was on 10/05/15.

Any thoughts? The statement says that 'The conditional offer to date has not been complied with' but the offer they sent I sent back in the post to then receive a note saying that I would have to wait for their next communication (this that I've received today) because of the 6 points I already had on my license at the time.

- - - Updated - - -

Did you admit the offence when you were pulled? That may be sufficient, but from your posts I suspect you thought you were insured.
The police need information of evidential standard, and if that was obtained from the MIB, and the company you thought was insuring you, there would have been delays.

They did the checks and found out that I wasn't insured, so I guess I admitted it in the sense that I said I clearly hadn't looked at my insurance documents properly. I had a NIP handed to me there too.

[des8]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

From the court papers it seems they had sufficient evidence on 10/05/2015.
You now need to discover when they laid information with the court, to see if they breached the 6 month time limit.
The witness statement being dated the same date as the summons certainly looks suspiciously like they may have been late.