Failure to provide & driving offence

[Just234]

So

I was sent a letter asking for driver details for the offence of using a mobile phone whilst driving.
The photo images they sent along with it were not clear at all and there was very little in the way of information about where they were taken apart from on ‘Axyz’ which is a 3 mile long route.

I asked for more information which they would not provide and therefore requested it be heard at magistrates as I was unable to identify the driver on such little information.
the charge notice came through as failure to provide and the driving charge.

I wrote and explained I thought that I’d get to see the video once the application to magistrates had been done and I believed (wrongly it seems) that I could then plead accordingly and identify the driver.

To complicate things the address that the paperwork went to is not my home address but where the car is registered at.
Because I was ill I didn’t get the paperwork and missed the case management court date.

They’ve obviously dealt with this in my absence at the case management hearing and I’ve been given 6 points for the failure to provide and a fine. Nothing for the actual driving offence.

any thoughts on whether it would be worth challenging this.
would applying for a statutory declaration then mean the whole case be heard again including the what now seems to be a dismissed driving offence? Or would I be able to ask them to look at the failure to provide?

[islandgirl]

Handyandy who knows more about these issues than anyone will be along soon but surely you knew whether you were driving the car or not on the day at the time?

[Just234]

I drove one direction, got dropped off and the other driver drove back the other direction same road. So therefore because the police wouldn’t provide any further info I couldn’t identify where it was or who the driver was.

[HandyAndy]

I wrote and explained I thought that I’d get to see the video once the application to magistrates had been done and I believed (wrongly it seems) that I could then plead accordingly and identify the driver.

It doesn’t work like that.

You are required to provide the driver’s details within 28 days of being asked. The reason you were asked to attend court is because you failed to do so. It is not an opportunity to obtain further evidence so that you can provide the driver’s details when you get there.

To enable you to do this the police have only to provide the date/time and the location where the offence is alleged to have occurred. They are not obliged to provide photographs or video footage.

I drove one direction, got dropped off and the other driver drove back the other direction same road. So therefore because the police wouldn’t provide any further info I couldn’t identify where it was or who the driver was.

Does the s172 request not provide a direction of travel? What did you do to establish who was driving? Did you compare the time of the offence with the time you were dropped off?

I’m not going to go through all the things you might have done to establish who was driving. All you seem to have done is to ask the police for material they are not obliged to provide you with. You were confident enough when you first entered a not guilty plea. If you think you’ve done enough, perform an SD and plead not guilty again. As you seem to have some continuing difficulties receiving your mail, make sure you keep in touch with the court so you can attend your trial.

[Just234]

Thankyou for clarifying

The information they provided was very little, no position on a 3 mile stretch of road with no indication of whether it was north or southbound. It wasn’t a picture taken off a traffic camera it was a fellow motorist so it’s not like the actual location could be detected like in normal circumstances where you know roughly where the static cameras or you know roughly where the vans park, you can normally see by the image they provide where the car is roughly on a road but this was literally a picture of the car and that was it no identifying surroundings at all.

Journeys were within minutes drop off drive back so there is little to go on with regards to pin point exact timings. phone data doesn’t flag anything up.

The annoying thing is the video is key to this…. I get it, they aren’t obliged to show you but this is where the rules mean common sense goes out the window.

So just to clarify - Statutory declaration then I would be pleading to both charges again.
Am I right in thinking a statutory declaration will not just address the conviction I’ve got for the failure to provide, it will cancel that and effectively start the process again from scratch - is that correct?

[HandyAndy]

The annoying thing is the video is key to this….

How do you know any video exists?

Anyway it doesn’t really matter. The offence you have been convicted of is “failing to provide driver’s details.” If you defend the matter on the basis that the location provided was not precise enough to enable you to identify the driver, seeing that video now will not help your defence. You were asked to identify the driver based on the information the police provided on their written request. If you could not do that then that is what you must convince he court of. Any other evidence that may exist which might have helped you is irrelevant. You will have to show that despite exercising "reasonable diligence" you were still unable to identify the driver and it will be for the court to decide whether or not your efforts were sufficient.

Am I right in thinking a statutory declaration will not just address the conviction I’ve got for the failure to provide,

No you are not right. All it does is sets aside your conviction for that offence. Whether you will face both charges again depends on (a) whether you were charged with both in the first place and (b) whether the police want to persist with the phone charge. But I’m not sure why you are concerned with the phone offence. You don’t know who was driving and nor do the police. So you should not plead guilty to it and the police have no evidence against anybody else to prove they were driving.

[islandgirl]

As someone who would sit on a hearing such as the one above to decide if you had exercised reasonable diligence I am afraid I would (on the basis only of the information I have on this thread) convict unless you can show that the pictures provided do not allow you to work out a direction of travel etc. Also you know if you made a call. If you did not, you could have identified the other driver.

[HandyAndy]

I don't normally forecast verdicts as there are too many "unknowns" which we are unaware of.

However, since IG reflects my own thoughts and has really hit the nail on the head, I'll make an exception You must know whether or not you used a phone on the outbound journey. If you are sure that you didn't then it must have been your mate who did so on the way back. Unless of course you both did.

I think the "vague location" issue which you raise is smoke and mirrors and it will not fly. If there were only two possible drivers and you were one of them it should not be too difficult for the pair of you to come to a conclusion as to who was driving whilst using a phone.

I would be very surprised if you were found not guilty.