Speeding & Singe Justice Procedure

[wheelwright]

Hi all,

Got caught speeding October 2020, received and returned nip.

I received Single Justice Procedure March 2021, pleaded guilty online and plea was sent to magistrate(have proof of this)

Sat waiting since then for outcome.

Today I receive another Single Justice Procedure through the post dated 7th Jan 2022 for the same offence I'm waiting to hear about.

Is this normal?
Any ideas on what i should do?

Thanks in advance WW

[HandyAndy]

No, it's not normal. Are you absolutely sure they are both for the same offence?

Two things to do:

Check your driving record online to ensure you have not been convicted and you did not know the outcome. You can do that here:

View or share your driving licence information - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

The second thing to do is to check with the court what happened to the original charge to which you entered your plea. The law says that court proceedings must begin within six months of the date of the alleged offence. The proceedings are formally started by the prosecution issuing a SJPN and a "written charge." The SJPN goes to you and the written charge goes to the court (electronically actually, despite its name). If the prosecution are seeking to use this latest SJPN as the beginning of the proceedings you could argue that it is "out of time." However, they may argue that they have already begun proceedings (by virtue of the first SJPN). Before you make that argument you will need to enquire with the court what happened to the original case. If it was formally discontinued then it cannot be resurrected by the issue of a second SJPN

[wheelwright]

Hi handyandy,

Firstly let me thank you for reply and advice, it is much appreciated.
I have checked my licence and its clean, so that's a good start!
Contacting the court is my next step and to ask what happened to the original case.
If it was formally discontinued then what would I do?
If it wasn't discontinued and they say they have already begun proceedings (by virtue of the first SJPN), then is the second SJPN live and I will need to complete & return?

Have you ever come across a situation like this before? (2x SJPN for one case)
Is it often for a court to formally discontinue a speeding offence?
Mine is band C, 48 in a 20 so points or ban & I can't see myself being discontinued, but I hope I'm wrong!

[HandyAndy]

If it wasn't discontinued and they say they have already begun proceedings (by virtue of the first SJPN), then is the second SJPN live and I will need to complete & return?

If that is the case I don't really see the need for a second SJPN at all.

Have you ever come across a situation like this before? (2x SJPN for one case)

No

Is it often for a court to formally discontinue a speeding offence?

It is not within the gift of the court to discontinue cases put before it. That decision must be taken by the prosecution.

Mine is band C, 48 in a 20 so points or ban & I can't see myself being discontinued, but I hope I'm wrong!

For that excess you are well and truly into disqualification territory and I would be surprised if the court thinks points are appropriate. The band of seriousness covers speeds of 41mph and above and your speed was 2.4 times the limit (imagine 168mph in a 70mph limit). The recommended sentence is either a ban of up to 56 days or six points. However, Magistrates have additional guidance which says "Where an offender is driving grossly in excess of the speed limit the court should consider a disqualification in excess of 56 days." By any interpretation 48 is grossly in excess of 20 and I would not be surprised to see a ban of around three months imposed if you are convicted.

You really need to find out what has happened here. Whether or not you reply to this second SJPN is immaterial. It seems clear that, whatever happened earlier, your case has now surfaced. I would contact the court post-haste and ask, specifically, what happened at the hearing that followed your earlier SJPN and ask them why a second has been issued after so long.

You could put forward an argument that you have a "reasonable expectation" that the matter should have been concluded long before now. You can touch on this when you contact the court,, saying that you simply assumed that it was decided that no further action would be taken. But that gets very messy and is unlikely to be concluded in the Magistrates' Court. In any case I doubt your case will be concluded under the SJ procedure. Because of the speed the Single Justice handling it will almost certainly see a disqualification as appropriate and adjourn your matter for a hearing in the normal court, which you will be invited to attend. See what they say. Make careful notes of the conversation and get the name of the person you speak to. Bear in mind that whoever you do speak to will not be legally trained and may give you misleading information.

[wheelwright]

Hi HandyAndy, and many thanks again,

I'm starting to get the feeling I need someone who knows exactly what to say & ask the court.
It may help for a better outcome, what do you think?

[HandyAndy]

Wait to see what the court says about the earlier SJPN. The problem is you will not get much change out of £500 as a minimum for representation and that will go a long way to paying your fine, etc. if you are convicted. If they are prosecuting you solely on the basis of this latest SJPN it is out of time. That's why it's important to find out the status of the earlier SJPN.

I've not come across anything like this before and it does need a bit of thought. It might be an idea to post this problem of Pepipoo:

www.pepipoo.com

You will get a wide range of informed opinions on there (including mine, but I'll stay out of it on there!). Let us know what the court says.

[wheelwright]

Cheers mate I've joined the pepipoo site & posted my query.

[HandyAndy]

Hi Wheely,

I've been following the thread on Pepipoo with interest, though as I promised, I have not contributed to it. One or two of the contributors on there are a little forthright (!) but there certainly seems a consensus of opinion there that the second SJPN does not substantially alter things. I can see it being viewed as a "clerical error" (which, in the main, rarely provide a get-out-of-jail-free card). There are one or two legally qualified contributors on there who have not weighed in. Hopefully they will.

That said, I would certainly enquire of the court the status of the case as far as the original SJPN goes. It could throw up an angle and from what you've said on Pepipoo, this conviction could have far reaching consequences for you.

[wheelwright]

hi Handy,

Yep a certain person on there comes across as arrogant and only mildy interested in my case! I'd sooner people like that not bother posting.

How can he say ringing the court about the original SJPN isn't worth it as its issued by the Police, isn't it the court that pass sentence.
I'm sure if I rang the police they'd say ring the court we've done our bit we don't give out the sentencing.

It would be nice if these other legal people you mention give an input, but the advice you've give me so far is the best.

Why can't everyone be as helpful as you've been, humans eh!

[HandyAndy]

Yes it's true that the police issue the SJPNs. However, once that's done that's them largely finished with the admin. In any case, it's not the issuing of the SJPN that you are interested in; it is what happened at the court with the accompanying "written charge" following its issue. It's important to remember that the SJPN does not initiate the court process; that's only your notification of the proceedings. As I said earlier, court action begins with the accompanying "written charge". So if, for instance, the written charge accompanying the first SJPN did not get to the court, then proceedings were not started. It's a long shot because as I understand it, the process is automated with documents being produced and sent electronically; one should not occur without the other. But in your position you need to explore every angle. That's why I would contact the court to find out. You may have difficulty getting to the bottom of this but I think you must try, especially bearing in mind the considerable difficulty a lengthy disqualification will present for you.

...but the advice you've give me so far is the best.

Only if it works!

[wheelwright]

Not sure if this means anything but the first SJPN URN had the first two zeros of the number penned over(this is the number I have proof of plea received online) but the latest sjp has the beginning four zeros in full view, other than this the URNS are exactly the same.

Rang court but continously busy, emailed asking what happened @ sjp hearing I plead to back in April using original URN.

[wheelwright]

HandyAndy

Been to court today to find out what happened at the original hearing to be told offence withdrawn 20/05/21, I pleaded guilty online 7/04/21.
No other offence listed in my name.
Does this mean its over?
Where does this leave me now with the second SJPN received 7/01/22?
What do I do now?

[HandyAndy]

Hi Wheely,

Just seen your identical post on Pepipoo. My view is that you are now being prosecuted twice for the same offence and that cannot happen. Your original prosecution was discontinued and this must have been done with the agreement of the prosecutor (the court cannot make the decision to discontinue without that agreement). They don't get a second shot at it.

See what the Pepipoo contributors think (hopefully you'll catch The Rookie in a better mood! ). But my view is that it is done and dusted. If so, I think you should contact the court before responding to the latest SJPN and explain the situation. If you do, make sure you get the name of anybody you speak to and make careful notes.

[wheelwright]

Hi Handy,

Having spoken to the person @ Court today he was absolutely certain nothing else lay on file for me.
I can't see what speaking to court again will do about latest SJPN as there's nothing to say.
He printed off the what they had, it's the offence & next to it WDRN offence withdrawn, I'd upload pic but I can't get it to happen for some reason.

I really need to know what to do about latest SJPN, ignore it plead guilty, Rookie on the other site don't seem interested in posting, maybe you could get his interest up?

[HandyAndy]

I've posted a "nudge" !