Insurance issues help please

[Loopyloo123]

Hi all, I'm new here and would appreciate some advice. My partner had a work car, I bought it so we had a spare to take my daughter's dogs for a walk. It was transferred to her name, was on her drive taxed but not insured in her name. Her partner had a policy, similar to a traders policy, but not. It gave him permission to drive any car, even if it had no tax, mot or insurance, unlike other insurances. I checked myself and got them to send an email confirmation too. The car was insured at all times he used it, despite not having its own policy. As it was kept off the road until he used it and was taxed, we thought that was okay. Now my daughter has been fined for no insurance? She has not received any paperwork from the police, or the court, yet already she is being chased for a court fine?

my question is does the fact that her partner was insured enough, or should she have had a separate insurance policy?

many thanks.

Loopyloo

[des8]

Hi and welcome.
Sorry to say the car needed either to be SORNED or to be identified on a policy.
Blanket policies, such as traders, do not identify individual vehicles.
Continuous insurance regulations explanatory note: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0110020_en.pdf


Can you post up the document (redacted) received by your daughter?

[Loopyloo123]

Hi and welcome.
Sorry to say the car needed either to be SORNED or to be identified on a policy.
Blanket policies, such as traders, do not identify individual vehicles.
Continuous insurance regulations explanatory note: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0110020_en.pdf


Can you post up the document (redacted) received by your daughter?

Thank you for your reply & info. We don't have any paperwork, nothing received at all from anybody, but when being chased for the fine we enquired by email, this was the reply:

On 08/11/2017 at xxxxxxx you were the person in whose name a vehicle, namely MOTOR VEHICLE Xxxxxxx was registered under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 when it did not meet the insurance requirements of section 144A of the Road Traffic Act 1988. Contrary to section 144A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

LL

[Loopyloo123]

I looked at the legislation and believe there should have been a letter informing us of the insurance issues, but we haven't received anything? Also, I cannot make out who issues the PCN, the police or the DVLA, because the car was stopped for no insurance and impounded by the police and they had to give it back with no charge because the car WAS insured all the time it was in the driver's possession? How does that work? I thought as long as it was taxed, it only needed to be insured when it was ON the road, not off road? My mistake obviously, but is there any movement with this, eg, no notification? If they change the law they should send notification out to all driving licence holders or registered keepers as notice of impending changes in the law? I have asked may people and they did not know this rule? Everybody knows if it's not taxed it must be SORN, but it was taxed?

LL

[des8]

The continuous insurance regulations were widely advertised at the time of their introduction in 2011, and unfortunately ignorance of the law is no defence.
You are not alone in not realising the requirements.

You say there was no paperwork, yet your daughter was in receipt of a fine.
If there was no paperwork how did she discover the fine? telepathy?

[wales01man]

Was she driving on the public highway at the time?

[Loopyloo123]

The continuous insurance regulations were widely advertised at the time of their introduction in 2011, and unfortunately ignorance of the law is no defence.
You are not alone in not realising the requirements.

You say there was no paperwork, yet your daughter was in receipt of a fine.
If there was no paperwork how did she discover the fine? telepathy?

Lol! No, I was in contact with the fines office to organise instalments for a separate motoring issue & they brought it to my attention that was was something outstanding.

I was told by a very helpful person that usually for motoring offences (perhaps not insurance, perhaps that's the MIB) there should be a search of the vehicle registered keeper, which would show up on the DVLA database and be available to see via a SAR and that a PCN should be issued within 28 days, does anybody know if this is the case?

thank you

LL

[Loopyloo123]

Was she driving on the public highway at the time?

She wasn't driving and hadn't driven it at all, only her partner with his insurance that did cover him.

[Loopyloo123]

The continuous insurance regulations were widely advertised at the time of their introduction in 2011, and unfortunately ignorance of the law is no defence.
You are not alone in not realising the requirements.

You say there was no paperwork, yet your daughter was in receipt of a fine.
If there was no paperwork how did she discover the fine? telepathy?

When you say advertised, I don't watch the to or read the newspapers, shouldn't there have been a mail drop to ensure all licence holders know? Or would that be too simple?

LL

[des8]

She should have been sent an insurance advisory letter (IAL) warning her the car was uninsured, and what the consequences would be if she did not correct the position.
Having done nothing (through ignorance!) she would then receive a Fixed Penalty notice of £100
Not paying that and it's court with a fine of up to £1000

How far down the process is she?

Might be worth sending a SAR to DVLA to find out if they followed due process.

If the authorities did a mail drop to licence holders, to be fair they would also have to do so for all future licence holders.
And if just for this matter perhaps you would like every resident of the UK to be sent a letter detailing every change to every regulation, law, and details of every new law.
So no, i don't agree that all licence holders should have had a mail drop

[Loopyloo123]

Thank you for your comments. Been to court I assume & fined because there is a fine there waiting to be paid? I have requested a SAR from DVLA & no searches by police, there’s some parking ticket follow up & court warrant I think, I’ll check because I sent off for all our cars to see what was what & don’t have the papers in front of me, because her alternative red light misdemeanour, which again was her partner, she got failure to disclose, despite us disclosing as soon as we received the court letter, didn’t come through with any paperwork, only at the last min a letter for court?

What should I be looking for in the SAR with regard to due process?

thank you

LL

[des8]

This thread started off with one offence regarding lack of continuous insurance, but has now progressed to parking tickets and a red light violation and failure to disclose !
From your post it would seem that various notices may not have been either received or recognised for what they were and acted upon accordingly

You need to see if proper procedures were followed, that the correct notifications were sent

[Loopyloo123]

How do I find out what the procedures are & whether the process has been followed, because I don’t think it has, but I don’t have the knowledge?

the fine I was discussing originally with the fines officer, which brought the other fine to light, was for the red light failing to disclose, albeit we disclosed on the first paperwork received, still my daughter was charged with failing to disclose. It’s not like it was purposely, it wasn’t her & her partner knew it was him & would take what was coming to him. I don’t think either process was done properly, but I don’t know the process? I know no mail was received & after someone telling me there should be a search by traffic police on DVLA & there isn’t, I wonder what has actually happened & is this true? If that makes sense, sorry waffling a bit?

LL

[wales01man]

How do I find out what the procedures are & whether the process has been followed, because I don’t think it has, but I don’t have the knowledge?

the fine I was discussing originally with the fines officer, which brought the other fine to light, was for the red light failing to disclose, albeit we disclosed on the first paperwork received, still my daughter was charged with failing to disclose. It’s not like it was purposely, it wasn’t her & her partner knew it was him & would take what was coming to him. I don’t think either process was done properly, but I don’t know the process? I know no mail was received & after someone telling me there should be a search by traffic police on DVLA & there isn’t, I wonder what has actually happened & is this true? If that makes sense, sorry waffling a bit?

LL

Was the offence Failure to name the driver? if so the offence is normally dealt with quite harshly by the courts.The Police don't tell you they have contacted the DVLA

[Loopyloo123]

Yes it was, although we named him as soon as we were aware that there was a case to answer, we couldn’t name him before, because there was no paperwork before?

i didn’t think the police would say they’ve contacted the DVLA, I assume they have a direct electronic link through, hence why they can do roadside checks, but I thought that it would be on the DVLA SAR I requested, but it’s not?

ive been told it should show up, but it doesn’t, hence my worry that due process has not been followed? How can I find this out?

LL