Who produces a liability order

[datis]

I have been trying to obtain the following documents from my local authority - Schedule 2 of the council tax (administration and enforcement) regulations 1992 SI613 Form A - Liability Order in respect of council tax.

I am currently awaiting a response the local authority but in the mean time have contacted my local magistrates court to obtain the documents and received this response - "I am sorry to inform you but we do not produce the liability orders at court and do not have a copy of them, the council produces their own orders, we only hear the cases as to whether they are granted or not. The only place you will be able to gain the orders is the council."

Can someone please clarify how a liability order is produced if it is not done by a magistrate?

[nemesis45]

Re: Who produces a liability order

I have been trying to obtain the following documents from my local authority - Schedule 2 of the council tax (administration and enforcement) regulations 1992 SI613 Form A - Liability Order in respect of council tax.

I am currently awaiting a response the local authority but in the mean time have contacted my local magistrates court to obtain the documents and received this response - "I am sorry to inform you but we do not produce the liability orders at court and do not have a copy of them, the council produces their own orders, we only hear the cases as to whether they are granted or not. The only place you will be able to gain the orders is the council."

Can someone please clarify how a liability order is produced if it is not done by a magistrate?

Council Tax Enforcement Unit at your local council will deal with the whole process.

nem

[stevemLS]

Re: Who produces a liability order

The council produces the Order which is usually "rubber stamped" by the magistrates court.

[datis]

Re: Who produces a liability order

Thank you for the prompt replies, it is a not a very clear procedure as I had assumed before a magistrate signed an order all the facts would have been read then signed in wet ink.
Does this mean it is purely an administrative exercise in which blocks of orders are signed?

[stevemLS]

Re: Who produces a liability order

That is how it used to work when I worked in a Magistrates Court (poll tax days though).

The Council would produce a schedule of the Orders from which would be deleted anyone who turned up for their hearing (very, very few) and the Magistrate would sign the schedule which covered all the Orders.

The same process would apply to, for example, applications for warrants from utilities.

[Crazy council]

Re: Who produces a liability order

Hi

Can someone please clarify how a liability order is produced if it is not done by a magistrate

In your council, there is 2 senior officers, with locked in responcability under the LGFA ( section 151 and monitoring officer ) ( finance and legal )

The Monitoring officer, produces a document to enable the court officer, to act under deligated responcability of the monitoring officer ( this allows the court officer to make the applications )

The monitoring officer ( or delegated officer ), is responsible for the legal application of the liability order
The 151 officer, is responsible for the correct accounting and procedural side of the application

Is your liability order wrong, put down some details,

[datis]

Re: Who produces a liability order

It is very very complicated and sorry to be cryptic but I can't discuss it in the public forum, I just wanted to clarify how they were obtained as it seemed a very unfair system

[outlawlgo]

Re: Who produces a liability order

I have been trying to obtain the following documents from my local authority - Schedule 2 of the council tax (administration and enforcement) regulations 1992 SI613 Form A - Liability Order in respect of council tax.....

Form A and form B are referred to in regulation 35(1) of the same Regulations you mention.

If, for example, a defendant made representations and appeared before Magistrates at the council tax liability hearing, the court would use Form A (or similar), as it deals with an individual. All other defendants against whom the council makes complaint, who don't appear before the court can be dealt with collectively with their particulars entered on a Form B (or similar).

However, reg 35 was amended by SI 2003/2211, the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) (Amendment) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2003.

Though there is nothing explaining in that amendment the reasons why the forms are no longer prescribed, the explanatory note to the Welsh amendment (SI 2003/1715) does give this as the reason:

....The Lord Chancellor’s Department have recently conducted a review of the forms used in Magistrates' Courts and now wish to implement a new set of forms which are all to have a consistent style. As part of this process, it is necessary to de-prescribe the forms of Liability Order and of Warrant of Commitment mentioned above...

The amended regulation, 35(1), is as follows:

Liability orders: further provision

35.—(1) A single liability order may deal with one person and one such amount (or aggregate amount) as is mentioned in regulation 34(7) and (8), or, if the court thinks fit, may deal with more than one person and more than one such amount.

Despite the two forms (A and B) no longer being prescribed, there is still provision for dealing with a single Liability Order, and so where someone wishes to defend themselves, the court in theory is obliged to deal with that person on an individual basis.

[datis]

Re: Who produces a liability order

Does that mean you can request your on personal liability order? I have been trying to get hold of them for a year and have been ignored

[outlawlgo]

Re: Who produces a liability order

Does that mean you can request your on personal liability order? I have been trying to get hold of them for a year and have been ignored

I guess if they did (could) provide it, all you would get would be a print out of the relevant page (out of hundreds) where your detail are set out. There would be little more than your name, address, amount outstanding etc. etc.

[datis]

Re: Who produces a liability order

Ok thanks, it seems very very dodgy. How is it a valid document if it is not clear who has signed it and cannot be obtained?

[outlawlgo]

Re: Who produces a liability order

You aren't the only one looking for that illusive Form A

Under the heading, Where’s the Liability Order Form A ?. An article by Alan Murdie, barrister.

"The time bombs under the Council Tax"

[datis]

Re: Who produces a liability order

If no form A can be produced doesn't that bring the validity of liability into question?

[outlawlgo]

Re: Who produces a liability order

If no form A can be produced doesn't that bring the validity of liability into question?

Since the 2003 amendment, the Magistrates' Court has no legal obligation to use the specified Form A.

What would be worth knowing though (and getting a copy of), is what form was implemented to take its place.

Just because Form A was de-prescribed it can not have meant that no form was required.