Liability Order pickle

[Johnxx]

I took a tenancy around a year ago and left after about a month.

During this summer the current tenant of this property passed on some papers to me via the landlord regarding Council Tax.

Despite providing the council with my new address they applied for a liability order.

After writing to them again with my new address and querying the dates the liability was for they applied for a variation of this liability order.

There have been a number of letters to and from the council. There are additional costs from Equita who I presume are Bailiffs.

In essence I would be grateful for help regarding:
1 Whether it is upon me to prove the council received my first letter notifying them I had moved there being no proof of posting.
2 Should have applied any effort to find me prior to me writing the second letter. ie made contact with landlord?
3 If the liability order was applied for is valid at an address the council knew I was not living at. The tenant after me was on Housing Benefit.
4 Where a variation in liability order was sought by the coucil, was there any duty from the council to inform me of this?

This is relatively recent. I'm aware that a liability order can only be overturned by a Judicial Revue. However there is no point in going down this route if I am likely to lose at the outset. Is there any chance of things going my way, or should I settle a £300+ bill for £85 of Council Tax and put it down to experience?

If there's anything else you might like to know, please do ask.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Liability Order pickle

If there is no basis for arguing that you do not owe the money, I suggest settling it.

[stevemLS]

Re: Liability Order pickle

This is relatively recent. I'm aware that a liability order can only be overturned by a Judicial Revue. However there is no point in going down this route if I am likely to lose at the outset. Is there any chance of things going my way, or should I settle a £300+ bill for £85 of Council Tax and put it down to experience?

I'm sorry John, I couldn't resist - I love this idea, do they dress up and do the can can?

Seriously, can you give us the dates?

Service on last known address is good service. That the following tenant was on housing benefit is immaterial.

Judicial Review is usually an extremely expensive process. Just get to the permission stage you can be looking at £20k.

A judge can now dismiss a claim as being "totally without merit" on the papers, if they do that, essentially that is the end of it.

There is a strict time limit of 3 months to lodge the application.

Do you have any hard evidence that you notified the council of your change of address at the time?

[Johnxx]

Re: Liability Order pickle

If there is no basis for arguing that you do not owe the money, I suggest settling it.

Is that still the case when the amount has been varied by a further order? Should they have informed me of this application?

Otherwise this does seem the case.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sorry John, I couldn't resist - I love this idea, do they dress up and do the can can?

Seriously, can you give us the dates?

Service on last known address is good service. That the following tenant was on housing benefit is immaterial.

Judicial Review is usually an extremely expensive process. Just get to the permission stage you can be looking at £20k.

A judge can now dismiss a claim as being "totally without merit" on the papers, if they do that, essentially that is the end of it.

There is a strict time limit of 3 months to lodge the application.

Do you have any hard evidence that you notified the council of your change of address at the time?

- - - Updated - - -

I guess given the wigs and gear it could be classes as dressing up!

I don't have any evidence that I posted my change of address to them apart from a copy of the letter I sent. When does the 3 months start from?

I don't see how the address they know someone else lives at could be a "good address". While the Housing Benefit part may be immaterial, it does evidence by way of claim that no one else was living there.

The other parts are still the case, where a variation in liability order was sought by the coucil, was there any duty from the council to inform me of this?

[stevemLS]

Re: Liability Order pickle

The three months normally starts from the date of the decision, which would be the grant of the original LO.

Unless you have very deep pockets I think JR is probably not the right way to go.

In some circumstances you can apply to the Magistrates to have a conviction reopened if you make a statutory declaration that you had no knowledge of the proceedings - does anyone know if this applies to LOs? [MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] maybe?

I don't think you can rely on the CT enforcement people searching HB records to see whether they had any record of anyone else living at the address. They have the power to use information in that way but not an obligation.

The Council has the right to apply for an order to be quashed and further application for a new order to be made for a lesser amount, but the application process is the same as for the original order (i.e. application for a summons). Magistrates Courts have a general power under s142 Magistrates Courts Act 1980 to reopen any case where they have made any order.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Liability Order pickle

Is that still the case when the amount has been varied by a further order? Should they have informed me of this application?
...
The other parts are still the case, where a variation in liability order was sought by the coucil, was there any duty from the council to inform me of this?

Well clearly they morally SHOULD have told you. That doesn't mean you have any legal remedy. Or you may have a legal remedy that is disproportionately expensive. Or one that would ultimately cause the council a nuisance but not improve your position.

Unless you think the new amount is wrong, there seems little to be gained by challenging this. If they had not varied the order you would still have a LO and the added bailiff fees. If somehow you are able to make them remove the variation, they will then just send the notification to your current address and proceed with a new variation unless you pay up.

If you owe this money, the debt is not going to go away until you pay it. From your previous post I guess you can afford to pay it. I suggest paying it and moving on with your life.

[Crazy council]

Re: Liability Order pickle

Liability orders for CT and NNDR

1. As longs as you owe some, for the period, then there valid, the council only need to confirm the ammount at the time of settlment
2. They only haver to make 'reasonable effort' to check its the correct address, ect,
3. If you contacted them to say you moved ( or just paid CT at another address, then this is usualy enought for them to withdraw charges

So, if you do owe, just agree to pay that ( in monthly affordable amounts ), and say your not paying costs. Ask them to make a dissision over the costs, in the next 14 days, and tell them, if they have refused, to immediately start a complaint.

They will agree, becasue they will not want to deal with the service complaint

I will get back on this later when i have more time as there is a part that interests me