Council Tax Liability orders

[Fetherston]

Hello - Please can someone tell me how councils are allowed to totally control the issue of summonses and to deal with applications for adjournment (ie ignore them when passed to them by the Magistrates Court). Then instruct the court clerk not to allow me to speak and then instruct the magistrate to make an order?? When protesting to the court that this could not possibly be legal, I was told that the court cannot take any action with regard to the granting of liability orders - even though they are the ones who actually grant the order. This cannot be right or legal can it? ps the case iss till ongoing with the Tribunal Service. We have won our appeal once and the council has reissued its claim. The case has now been ongoing for more than seven years with 21 tribunal hearings!!

[bluebottle]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

From what you have said, it appears you are dealing with a local authority that has contempt for the rule of law and a magistrates court committee that rolls over and does what they say. I came across a case similar to your own during 2013.

The issuing of summonses by local authorities which purport to have been issued by a magistrates court is illegal and is called Passing Off.

If the local authority in your case is ignoring instructions/orders from the court, they are in contempt and those responsible are liable to the penalties prescribed by law.

The local authority's instructions to the Clerk of the Court not to allow you to speak and to the magistrate to issue an order are clear breaches of Article 6, Human Rights Act 1998. Article 6 provides you with a right to a fair hearing. It may also amount to a breach of the law pertaining to the conduct of proceedings in magistrates courts. You do not appear to have had a fair hearing or been allowed a fair hearing. The purpose of a Council Tax Liability hearing is to determine whether grounds exist to grant a Liability Order by hearing, testing and weighing evidence from both sides, not simply rubber-stamp what the local authority wants.

The conduct of the magistrates court committee, the magistrates and the Clerks of the Court can be dealt with by way of a formal complaint to H.M. Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS). The complaint should be written as a document in its own right, in Times New Roman, with numbered paragraphs. Send it to -

Correspondence, Complaints and Litigation Unit
H.M. Courts and Tribunals Service
102 Petty France
London
SW1H 9AJ

HMCTS is responsible for the running of the courts and if this sort of thing is going on, they need to know about it. On the whole, HMCTS senior staff are very helpful and will, hopefully, be able to do something to nip this in the bud. Make sure you mention Article 6, Human Rights Act 1998 in the complaint.

I would suggest that you may need to go to Judicial Review as regards the conduct of the local authority involved and the complicity of the magistrates court. However, that is something you will need to discuss with a legal professional.

[outlawlgo]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Some miscellaneous information on the subject:

Excerpt from the Justices Clerks' Society under heading "Procedure: Liability Order Application":

2. The court hears a bulk application for all non-attenders: the Council representative proves the technical requirements and gives evidence that the sums levied have not been paid.

3. Any defendant attending or writing to the court is dealt with individually and orders made (or not made) in their case. Their attendance or otherwise is also recorded.

From the same document....

5. Procedures prior to the hearing

The Court and its staff should not give the impression that the Council is in charge of the process.

Something on human rights taken from the Chartered Institute of Public Finance Accountancy's (CIPFA) website:

Human Rights Act 1998

Local authorities must be careful not to infringe an individual's human rights. Potential areas for problems are:

• notice of hearing;

• being careful not to appear to stop the taxpayer appearing before the court, if they want only to make a payment arrangement;

• not having available a translator for people whose first language is not English; and

• not separating the roles of court taking officer and the person who gives evidence of process.

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

have to agree with BB, council tax liability order hearings are a true manifestation of, with all the elements in place to qualify as a Kangaroo Court

[bluebottle]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

What Outlawlgo has flagged up is very damning and shows individuals' rights under the Human Rights Act 1998 are being violated. These rights are inviolate and inalienable. There are provisions within the Act which forbid a public authority from taking away a person's rights under the Act or attempting to take them away. Local authorities may try and claim they are exempt from compliance as it is to do with the economic well-being of the state, but not to the point of subverting a person's right to a fair hearing. That right applies universally. It is even part of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UNUDHR).

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), also known as the Convention of Rome, from which the Human Rights Act 1998 is drawn, is part of International Law, as well as UK Domestic Law, in the form of the Human Rights Act 1998. This means that the British government, locally and nationally, is in breach of International and well as Domestic Law.

Outlawlgo has done some brilliant work in exposing the corruption and fraud involved in Council Tax administration and enforcement and long may they do so. However, everyone now needs to tell others and network the facts. Eventually, the disquiet about it will get louder and louder and dissent will become stronger and stronger. The politicians and those manipulating them from behind the scenes know the writing is on the wall for them and they have a choice of giving way or being forced to give way. If they think they can cling on to power and keep things the way they are and trample on people, then they have seriously underestimated the strength of the human spirit, individually and collectively.

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Ever likely Scamoron and his motley crew want to kill off HRA, it is not the crazy Common Purpose judgments that are the reason the CON part of the Dems want rid, it is the fact that people are getting wise to how their policies breach HRA of themselves

[bluebottle]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Ever likely Scamoron and his motley crew want to kill off HRA, it is not the crazy Common Purpose judgments that are the reason the CON part of the Dems want rid, it is the fact that people are getting wise to how their policies breach HRA of themselves

Cameron and Co. know people have sussed what is going on and are talking about it, BB. Why do you think Boy David and his motley crew are trying to rush oppressive and repressive legislation through at breakneck speed with little in the way of proper scrutiny? They know they are finished unless they can crush the people and beat them into submission. Exposure is what the CP nutters fear the most. They are terrified of the truth getting out, along with those who are manipulating things from behind the scenes. It is known that the Inner Sanctum of The Bilderberg Group, made up of seven individuals, fear the people of this world finding out what is really going on and rebelling, which is what the people of this world are doing. The Bilderberg Group members know this and are desperately trying to bail out a ship that is sinking. Think Titanic, think Bilderberg Group; think the iceberg that sank the Titanic, think the people of this world.

The Human Rights Act 1998 is a very powerful piece of legislation and it appears the UK breaches it up to 10 times per year. It is the worst offender for breaching human rights out of the 47 signatories to the Rome Convention (aka European Convention on Human Rights), even though it was the main architect of the Convention and the European Court of Human Rights.

Using the HRA to address CT injustices is a sensible measure as it forces local authorities into a corner, along with the Rent-A-Thug civil enforcement industry whom they use as debt collectors. It makes them sound like the Sheriff of Nottingham and his henchmen from the legend of Robin Hood and, to be honest, that analogy isn't far from the reality of the situation. With people like Outlawlgo, I can see the corruption and fraud relating to CT causing its collection to collapse and the system to implode in on itself.

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Well we must support him to, in the words of Patrick Stewart as Picard "Make it so"

[bluebottle]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Well we must support him to, in the words of Patrick Stewart as Picard "Make it so"

I couldn't agree more, BB. There is no way I nor, I suspect, the vast majority of people want to live in some neo-Nazi world. Cameron can take his policies and blow them out of his a***.

[Fetherston]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

I have complained via my MP Jeremy Wright who is a minister at the Ministry of Justice but he has just fobbed me off and told me to go to the Citizens Advice Bureau!! What can an individual like me do now. My complaint to the Courts and Tribunal Service has been ignored. The government has stopped Legal Aid for cases like mine . The liability orders open the door to bankruptcy proceedings, bailiffs and a whole lot more. It a total nightmare. Any idea for what I might do next???

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Any idea for what I might do next???

It's a really wild idea, I know, but have you considered paying the council what you owe? :behindsofa:

[Fetherston]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Well - the answer to that is that I do not believe that I owe them anything!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

How much do they say you owe - not counting the costs of obtaining Liabiility Orders?

[suffering]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

The big question is is it really owed at all. It must be nice to run a business, where you can cock thing up to your hearts content, screw the customers over because they have no choice, (or they are lead to beleave they don't) and when you.ve failed to work within your budget and operate a sensible cash flow retire with a big fat pension its easy just charge more and more and more and more more.............................................. ......... and finally when the customers cant aford it steal their house and belongings

[Fetherston]

Re: Council Tax Liability orders

Too right Jack Russell. Well, Clever clogs - you would have to ask them that!! At the last tribunal they were claiming £8,400 but in a letter last week to the Local Government Ombudsman they said it was £15,400. The summonses add up without costs to £11,240. This has been the case throughout the seven years of this matter - they dont know their arse from their elbow - and I am the one suffering because of it.!!