Council Tax Enfield Council

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

Council tax is an iniquitous imposition that falls disproportionately on those with limited income as it takes no account of ability to pay, let alone the cost the council adds to gain the LO, then the bailiff fees on top,. 8% of which may end up going back to the council as a kickback from the bailiff under the contract.

The whole system screams BENT! :mad2::mad2:

[Inca]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

OP,,you need to either wait on the phone to speak to the council or go down there with your evidence (if you don't fancy attending court) OR rock up at court with your evidence.
Personally,,I'd make contact with your council to check it's definitely a clerical error and there isn't an anomaly in your payments that has triggered the letter.

[Ostrich in sand]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

OP,,you need to either wait on the phone to speak to the council or go down there with your evidence (if you don't fancy attending court) OR rock up at court with your evidence.
Personally,,I'd make contact with your council to check it's definitely a clerical error and there isn't an anomaly in your payments that has triggered the letter.

Trying the local area counsellor as well, hoping to get some help on that. I will try to contact the council on Monday, see if I can get to a human being and hopefully resolve this issue.

I am not really wanting the court option but if that is what's required then so be it. What documents and do I need to supply copies for the magistrates and the council, when in court either for myself or for the duty solicitor?

[Inca]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

Personally speaking if it was me I'd take all my proof of payments down to the council before it goes anywhere near a court. If you know you are up to date with every payment.on time..every time then why put yourself through the hassle of court??
If all is as you say then it's easily sorted.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

Council tax is an iniquitous imposition that falls disproportionately on those with limited income as it takes no account of ability to pay, let alone the cost the council adds to gain the LO, then the bailiff fees on top,. 8% of which may end up going back to the council as a kickback from the bailiff under the contract.

The whole system screams BENT! :mad2::mad2:

Community Charge (Poll Tax) was a case of the less well-off subsidising the well-off. The Tories badly underestimated the reaction of the public to it. I can recall there was a demonstration against it in Plymouth where a young woman had a placard reading "Maggie. You rob from the poor and give to the rich. You stupid bitch." A young police officer - Not me, I might add - rather foolishly told the young woman to get rid of the placard. He was very quickly asked by other demonstrators if he would like the placard inserted into a certain bodily orifice sideways. Council Tax is not much better than Community Charge. The old Rates had its faults, but it was better than the dog's dinner we have at present.

There is corruption going on where CT is concerned and, sooner or later, it is going to come out into the open to be dealt with. Woe betide Magistrates Courts Committees and local authorities who have engaged in Passing Off.

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

Personally speaking if it was me I'd take all my proof of payments down to the council before it goes anywhere near a court. If you know you are up to date with every payment.on time..every time then why put yourself through the hassle of court??
If all is as you say then it's easily sorted.

Inca if you went to the court to answer the summons and take your proof to show the magistrates, you would be highly unlikely to succeed. The council basically take over the court and it becomes kangaroo with the beak rubber stamping everything. If you have a case and the summons was in error, you will find council officials will do their utmost to prevent you seeing a magistrate, so you will get an LO, and the council will get it's costs added to your up to date account as per the kangaroo nature of the Council Tax LO set up.

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

Community Charge (Poll Tax) was a case of the less well-off subsidising the well-off. The Tories badly underestimated the reaction of the public to it. I can recall there was a demonstration against it in Plymouth where a young woman had a placard reading "Maggie. You rob from the poor and give to the rich. You stupid bitch." A young police officer - Not me, I might add - rather foolishly told the young woman to get rid of the placard. He was very quickly asked by other demonstrators if he would like the placard inserted into a certain bodily orifice sideways. Council Tax is not much better than Community Charge. The old Rates had its faults, but it was better than the dog's dinner we have at present.

There is corruption going on where CT is concerned and, sooner or later, it is going to come out into the open to be dealt with. Woe betide Magistrates Courts Committees and local authorities who have engaged in Passing Off.

A CAG regular has exposed NELC and rossendales as being involved in widespread council tax fraud on the Taxpayers of North Lincolnshire. The police refuse to investigate prima facie evidence so are themselves complicit.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

A CAG regular has exposed NELC and rossendales as being involved in widespread council tax fraud on the Taxpayers of North Lincolnshire. The police refuse to investigate prima facie evidence so are themselves complicit.

Council Tax is not an area of the law ordinary plods would get involved in, BB. It would require a specialist team of officers with a sound knowledge of the law pertaining to Council Tax and Distress and procedures under which magistrates courts operate. Then and only then do I suspect the police will begin to make inroads into dealing with the fraud and corruption surrounding Council Tax. They would need to interview local government officers, civil servants and Justices of the Peace, as well as MCC members under caution just to scratch the surface. It would come as no surprise to me that fraud and corruption where Council Tax is concerned goes right to the heart of government at not just local level, but Westminster, too.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

I have checked the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and cannot find any provision that compels the court to grant a local authority an LO if they have issued a summons, the JPs claiming that if a local authority issues a summons they have no choice but to grant an LO. Unless there is some case law that substantiates this statement, my feeling is that the JPs, in this case, are talking out of their backsides, along with the clerk of the court.

One might as well try to argue that anyone that the CPS chooses to charge with an offence must be found guilty by the steatopygous buffoons on the bench.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

One might as well try to argue that anyone that the CPS chooses to charge with an offence must be found guilty by the steatopygous buffoons on the bench.

You old cynic, you, Cloggy! Only joking. The CPS does not get involved with Council Tax proceedings as they have no authority to do so. Where criminal offences are concerned, the evidence presented to the CPS must pass the 51% rule, i.e. there must be a prospect of at least 51% that the CPS can successfully secure a conviction. I take it by "steatopygous buffoons on the bench", you are referring to Justices of the Peace. It might interest you to know that there is a petition in existence amongst solicitors and barristers to remove JPs from the judicial process and system altogether. When they are appointed, JPs are told that when they are sitting in judgement on others, they leave their personal, political and religious beliefs and prejudices outside the court building and they test and weigh the evidence presented to the court. The reality, as you know, is that they completely ignore what they are told and all too often prejudge cases in that if someone has come before the court they must be guilty as charged. Is it any surprise solicitors and barristers and, surprisingly, a growing number of police officers, want shot of them?

[Inca]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

Bizzy.........I suggested OP takes his proof to the COUNCIL...not the court..If he proves to council he has no case to answer then the court threat must be dropped surely??
And I don't want to appear rude but yet again a thread is getting swamped by discussions on opinions of the bailiff companies (we all know they are guttersnipes) and the laws that may/may not apply to them.
I appreciate you are all passionate about the subject (I nearly put 'passionate about bailiffs,but that sounded wrong on SO many levels)..and that areas of the law are very grey regarding them but to the novices like me the salient points get lost amongst the diatribes.
Maybe SITE TEAM will allow a thread where the laws/opinions can be debated (in a friendly manner) and folks like me can learn instead of getting confused and OP's can act on the immediate relevant advice you all so kindly give??

[wales01man]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

If I may say,
If the OP has paid the council tax up to date there are no arrears no outstanding from previous years then there is no case to answer or am I in another world?
Inca is right about the thread turning into lets bash the Bailiffs it hasn't gone to court yet?

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

Bizzy.........I suggested OP takes his proof to the COUNCIL...not the court..If he proves to council he has no case to answer then the court threat must be dropped surely??
And I don't want to appear rude but yet again a thread is getting swamped by discussions on opinions of the bailiff companies (we all know they are guttersnipes) and the laws that may/may not apply to them.
I appreciate you are all passionate about the subject (I nearly put 'passionate about bailiffs,but that sounded wrong on SO many levels)..and that areas of the law are very grey regarding them but to the novices like me the salient points get lost amongst the diatribes.
Maybe SITE TEAM will allow a thread where the laws/opinions can be debated (in a friendly manner) and folks like me can learn instead of getting confused and OP's can act on the immediate relevant advice you all so kindly give??

Yes I realise that, and of itself is sound advice for a logical system with human input, however as the arrears procedure is mainly automated by computer generated letters at trigger dates, the mistake will be too entrenched for the council to be bothered to do anything, how an up to date account got to a summons will not concern them, all they will want now is their dodgy LO and the £80 or so court fees for obtaining it.

[Inca]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

No arrears (even on the arrears already being paid as per agreement) means no cause for court surely? If not,,then I'm def on the same planet as you wales.

[bizzybob]

Re: Council Tax Enfield Council

If I may say,
If the OP has paid the council tax up to date there are no arrears no outstanding from previous years then there is no case to answer or am I in another world?
Inca is right about the thread turning into lets bash the Bailiffs it hasn't gone to court yet?

And yes OP should make sure they interrogate the council regarding the "miststake" in writing preferably so the reply can be used in evidence when it almost inevitably goes in front of the beak for the LO and the councils fee kerching.