definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

[gooner1]

Can a bailiff attending on council tax non payment

1.... attend on 2 separate council tax liabilities from concurrent years and charge 2 sets of fees if the 1st, 2nd and WPA signing attendances where at the same date and time?.

2...include a £125 van fee on a WPA, before giving the debtor the opportunity to settle the levy?

3....make a 1st and 2nd attendance, levy fees, but not leave any form of documentation to inform the debtor who wasnt there that they had actually attended on that date?

[labman]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

1. If one levy is conducted for several warrants simultaneously, charges should be restricted to to those allowable for one levy.

2. If a WPA is in place and the bailiff is attending to remove goods, then a reasonable van fee would be chargeable. Bear in mind here that one can hire a van for a day for say £110. How many visits were made by that van, that day? Was the cost of having that van on the road for the day divided equally between the houses it visited?

3. If no documentation is left, no fee can be charged. The National Standards emphasise that a notice should be delivered to the debtor every time a fee is charged.

If in any doubt as to fees ask for a scale of their fees and send a SAR to get the bailiffs side of events as to when they attended etc...

[gooner1]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

1. If one levy is conducted for several warrants simultaneously, charges should be restricted to to those allowable for one levy.

2. If a WPA is in place and the bailiff is attending to remove goods, then a reasonable van fee would be chargeable. Bear in mind here that one can hire a van for a day for say £110. How many visits were made by that van, that day? Was the cost of having that van on the road for the day divided equally between the houses it visited?

3. If no documentation is left, no fee can be charged. The National Standards emphasise that a notice should be delivered to the debtor every time a fee is charged.

If in any doubt as to fees ask for a scale of their fees and send a SAR to get the bailiffs side of events as to when they attended etc...

1. Is there anything in statute that states that?, i cant find anything anywhere


2...On the day i signed the WPA he charged me £125 for vehicle attendance with view to removing goods....this seems unreasonable because there was no van just the car he uses to get from A to B with, also there was no WPA in place on arrival.
When he attendant the 4 the time WPA had been in place for 5 months and i had got behind on payments...again he clamped my car made no attempt to remove any goods but told me ha wasnt taking clamp off until all was paid or he was taking car. I was charged £125 for attending with vehicle with view to removal but again it was just his regular car.

3..Have received confirmation of charges from company and on the above mentioned day and it shows i was also charged for a 1st visit on another warrant that he did not even mention and then 2 weeks later a 2nd visit charge which i knew nothing about and have no documentation to show this

Do i have grounds to right to the council CEO and claim wrongful fees and demand a refund ?

[labman]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

1. Is there anything in statute that states that?, i cant find anything anywhere


2...On the day i signed the WPA he charged me £125 for vehicle attendance with view to removing goods....this seems unreasonable because there was no van just the car he uses to get from A to B with, also there was no WPA in place on arrival.
When he attendant the 4 the time WPA had been in place for 5 months and i had got behind on payments...again he clamped my car made no attempt to remove any goods but told me ha wasnt taking clamp off until all was paid or he was taking car. I was charged £125 for attending with vehicle with view to removal but again it was just his regular car.

3..Have received confirmation of charges from company and on the above mentioned day and it shows i was also charged for a 1st visit on another warrant that he did not even mention and then 2 weeks later a 2nd visit charge which i knew nothing about and have no documentation to show this

Do i have grounds to right to the council CEO and claim wrongful fees and demand a refund ?

All charges are set out int The Council Tax (administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

Much is also contained in the National Standards for Enforcement Agents.

If they did not bring a van, they cannot charge a van fee, simple as. There are two very good books by John Kruse (one of the leading bailiff authorities in the UK). The cheaper one is called BAILIFFS - The Law and Your Rights, the other is a Bible of bailiff law called Law of Seizure of Goods - Debtor's Rights and Remedies (quite expensive). Both of these, in addition to the legislation and guidance mentioned also mention these unfair charges specifically.

There was an update to the fees chargeable which I think was in 2006 off the top of my head. It was only adopted in England and not Wales, so if you live in Wales, go by the original fees, if in England the updated ones.

You can find a breakdown of them in this thread:

Information Thread - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum
Post Number 3 - all up to date.

These are purely for normal enforcement of Council Tax.

[ploddertom]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

If you have a list of fees with dates they were charged then it may pay to list them here so we can make comment - for instance do you have many fees all charged on the same date?

[ploddertom]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

Here is a list of current charges:

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs...nt_Charges.pdf

[labman]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

They are the same as the ones mentioned above. The only thing you need to be careful of is the 2006 amendment was never adopted in Wales, so if you're in Wales, the fees in the link from Hertfordshire will be incorrect.

If you're in England they're spot on.

[gooner1]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

If you have a list of fees with dates they were charged then it may pay to list them here so we can make comment - for instance do you have many fees all charged on the same date?

There are 3 statements from 3 different liabilities

MATTER 1

ISSUED 23/3/11
30/6/09 Arrears 403.65
30/3/11 1st 24.50
18/4/11 2nd 18.00
4/5/11 LEVY 37.00
4/5/11 WP 12.00
7/10/11 AVR 125.00 ?
7/10/11 Payment 644.15
12/10 N/ Sale 24.50 ?

MATTER 2
ISSUED 23/3/11

29/11/10 Arrears 858.20
30/3/11 1st 24.50 ?
18/4/11 2nd 18.00 ?
4/5/11 AVR 125.00 ?
4/5/11 LEVY 50.00 ?
4/5 11 WP 12.00 ?


MATTER 3
ISSUED 18/8/11

4/7/11 Arrears 158.56
7/10/11 1st 24.50 ?
13/10/11 2nd 18.00 ?


I have put question marks next to the charges i have issue with....

a) There was no van present at either AVR , just his regular vehicle and the AVR charge on Matter 2 was issued at the same time as the WPA....is this acceptable?

b) What is the N/ Sale charge after i had made a payment on Matter 1 ?

c) All the charges on Matter 2 where done on the same days as Matter 1..are they allowed to charge for each liability if they attend on the same day?

d) Charges for Matter 3 i knew nothing about, 1st was charged on same day he clamped my car and i was forced to make payment of £644.15, he made no mention of it being a 1st visit and left no paperwork. The 2nd is acomplete mystery i was not here and received no paperwork.


I paid an agreed instalment on Matter 2 today direct to the bailiff company, it was 2 weeks late. But was worried i was gonna get a knock on my door before xmas. Gave them a mouthful about the £3.65 debit card fee..thieving *******s !

Thank you for all your advice on this matter it really is appreciated...i know i have done wrong by not paying my CT in the first place but how can these private companies justify ripping people of like this, its disgraceful.

[ploddertom]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

Before commenting further I note you have 2 Levy Fees made on 4/5/11 - is it possible you can list the goods seized exactly as described on each Notice of Seizure?
Did you also sign both Waliking Possession Agreements?
How many times has the Bailiff visited or contacted you between the date of the alleged Levy being made & the date he has charged for AVR Fee?
You ask about the N/Sale Fee - this is better known as a Header H Fee - had a sale been arranged for your goods and had the goods been removed ?

[gooner1]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

Notice of Seizure 1 for £519.65
Brown sofa
Green Rug
Wood Coffee Table
Panasonic DVd
Wood Chest Drawers

Notice of Seizure 2 for £1112.20
Red Honda Accord
Panasonic colour tv
Wood Dining Table
Wood Desk
2x Wood Desks
2x Wood Bed side Table

Yes i signed both of them

Between the 4/05 and the 7/10 there was no contact at all..no phone calls and no visits....he knocked on my door at 8am, my car was already clamped and he demanded full payment or he was taking the car worth £200. He demanded payment towards settlement of Notice of Seizure 1 which the car is not on..

There was no sale arranged of goods taken

Before commenting further I note you have 2 Levy Fees made on 4/5/11 - is it possible you can list the goods seized exactly as described on each Notice of Seizure?
Did you also sign both Waliking Possession Agreements?
How many times has the Bailiff visited or contacted you between the date of the alleged Levy being made & the date he has charged for AVR Fee?
You ask about the N/Sale Fee - this is better known as a Header H Fee - had a sale been arranged for your goods and had the goods been removed ?

If you have a list of fees with dates they were charged then it may pay to list them here so we can make comment - for instance do you have many fees all charged on the same date?

There are 3 statements from 3 different liabilitiesMATTER 1ISSUED 23/3/1130/6/09 Arrears 403.6530/3/11 1st 24.5018/4/11 2nd 18.004/5/11 LEVY 37.004/5/11 WP 12.007/10/11 AVR 125.00 ?7/10/11 Payment 644.1512/10 N/ Sale 24.50 ? MATTER 2ISSUED 23/3/1129/11/10 Arrears 858.2030/3/11 1st 24.50 ?18/4/11 2nd 18.00 ?4/5/11 AVR 125.00 ?4/5/11 Levy 50.00 ?4/5 11 WP 12.00 ?MATTER 3ISSUED 18/8/114/7/11 Arrears 158.567/10/11 1st 24.50 ?13/10/11 2nd 18.00 ? I have put question marks next to the charges i have issue with....a) There was no van present at either AVR , just his regular vehicle and the AVR charge on Matter 2 was issued at the same time as the WPA....is this acceptable?b) What is the N/ Sale charge after i had made a payment ?c) All the charges on Matter 2 where done on the same days as Matter 1..are they allowed to charge for each liability if they attend on the same day?d) Charges for Matter 3 i knew nothing about, 1st was charged on same day he clamped my car and i was forced to make payment of £644.15, he made no mention of it being a 1st visit and left no paperwork. The 2nd is acomplete mystery i was not here and received no paperwork.I paid an agreed instalment on Matter 2 today direct to the bailiff company, it was 2 weeks late. But was worried i was gonna get a knock on my door before xmas. Gave them a mouthful about the £3.65 debit card fee..thieving *******s !..How do they get away with bleeding people who cant afford to pay debts dry..its disgracefull

[ploddertom]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

On your Notices of Seizure I would make the following comments:
Seizure 1
In my opinion he has not seized goods of sufficient value and I would argue he only made a Levy in order to gain a financial advantage for himself & his company.

Seizure 2
Same applies as Notice 1 with 1 exception. Honda cars do fetch good prices but how old is it, is it taxed & MoT'd?

I asked the question about contact by the Bailiff as I suspect he had actually abandoned his Levy. I assume that since he seized your goods you had made no payment in the interim. As you had signed the WPA he should have returned to seek payment or remove goods - normally within 5 days.

Header H Fee states:
Where no sale takes place by reason of payment or tender in the circumstances referred to in Regulation 45(4);
Regulation 45 (4) then states:
(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

What this means:
The Bailiff seizes your goods and as you fail to pay the monies outstanding he reattends and removes the said goods and a sale is arranged for them. In the meantime you then pay the outstanding monies including all fees. The sale then has to be cancelled and you are then free to collect the goods.

My opinion of this is that the Bailiff has abandoned his Levy and therefore all charges and costs associated with it must also be removed and be replaced with a Visit Fee where applicable.

[gooner1]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

The Honda is 12 years old 190,000 on the clock and bodywork a mess..worth 200 max.

He never seized any goods....the week after i signed the WPAs i moved address, he was well aware of this but i ended up moving to a different address to the one i gave him. I have proof that this was not intentional but found a more affordable property the day before i was due to move in the address i gave him, i even surrendered the £100 deposit i gave the landlord.

So he will claim that he didnt abandon his levy but it took him 5 months to track me down to new address.....

[CleverClogs]

Re: definitive bailiff fees confirmation please

a) There was no van present at either AVR , just his regular vehicle and the AVR charge on Matter 2 was issued at the same time as the WPA....is this acceptable?

Is fraud ever permissible?

Claiming a fee for providing a 'service' when no such 'service' was actually provided is fraud and is therefore a serious criminal offence.