Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

[Markie G]

Hi,

My local council has issued my mother with a Fix penalty notice for fly tipping. They said that she had dumped a fridge behind her house and they have evidence (this is all it says on the FPN). I have called them and they advised that there is no appeals, you pay it or they take you to court and are refusing to tell me (or her) what this evidence is. I have had to call them 7 times today as they put the phone down when I get into an argument about it as I feel that they are bullies. They won’t let her know what they have as evidence until they take her to a formal interview. They have now passed my calls to corporate complaints because they say that I am harassing them. Which is daft, I only called them that many times because they put the phone down and also promise phone calls back and 2 hours later it’s still not happened.

This stems from the neighbour who seems to think that he owns the street and picks fights with a number of the neighbours. They know my mother’s address, but I am unsure how they would know this from a fridge, which makes me think that it’s all coming from the neighbour.

I am wondering if I can force them to supply me/her with the evidence, my mum says she has not done it, but without the evidence I don’t know what to tell her. They have only given her 14 days to deal with and fined her £400 for one fridge. I told them that the fine is supposed to reflect the cost of removal etc., but they said it doesn’t.

My mum has been in tears with this neighbour because he keeps doing this and it seems he is at it again, but using the council.

Any help would be appreciated

[wales01man]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

Was it her fridge?

[des8]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

Unusual fo a council not to have an appeals system (altho' it is not mandatory.... which council is this?)

If she is going to be formally interviewed, take a solicitor

Was this her 'fridge, and if so does she know how it came to be outside her house?

Don't keep calling them... write (email or snail mail and get free certificate of posting)

[Diana M]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

How old is your Mum (no details needed )

Most Local Authorities have a policy of collecting unwanted 'white goods' without charge for 'Senior Citizens'.

Obviously this wouldn't be relevant if the fridge didn't belong to your Mum but I thought I'd mention it anyway for the benefit of other people reading this forum.

Di

[Markie G]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

Thats for the replies, with regards to the fridge we are not sure as she did get rid of a fridge and it was taken by a scrap man. The fridge was found next to a skip (another house is being done up by a builder so all of the content ends up in the skip). She does not think that the fridge is hers as she says that its not the same size as the one that she got rid of some weeks earlier.

My mum is 60 BTW,

My point that I raised with them is, if it was her fridge why would she not have simply dumped it in the skip as the fridge was right alongside the skip.

[wales01man]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

She must know if it was her fridge she must have had it for a few years? Giving it to a scrap man does not stop her being liable if it is fly tipped .
Think as its a large penalty worth talking to a local Solicitor for advice

[Diana M]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

My point that I raised with them is, if it was her fridge why would she not have simply dumped it in the skip as the fridge was right alongside the skip.

Perhaps this rogue fridge was dumped in the skip, but the builder took it out because he's paying for the skip for his own use? Maybe the builder was the person who reported this to the Council not the neighbour.

I expect the Council won't tell you who reported it to them in order to protect their anonymity.

If a scrap man took away your Mum's fridge some weeks earlier can she provide the Council with evidence if she paid him or has proof of the date he took it away?

Or on the assumption she got rid of her old fridge because she got a new fridge, does she have a receipt or delivery note for the replacement one which could help to established that the switch was done long before the Council was made aware of the alleged fly tipping?

At the same time as demanding to see their evidence she could provide her evidence in order to prove her innocence.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

They have only given her 14 days to deal with and fined her £400 for one fridge. I told them that the fine is supposed to reflect the cost of removal etc., but they said it doesn’t.

It seems the draconian £400 fixed penalty notice was only introduced by the Government in May this year as an alternative to prosecuting fly tippers through the courts.

I expect some Councils will see it as a money-spinner

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...on-fly-tipping

Di

[des8]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

Before employing the scrap dealer did your mother checkthat they were registered to deal with waste.

Householders have a resposibility to take reasonable measures to ensure theirdomestic waste is handled by an authorisedwaste carrier.
It will be for the courts to decidewhat these ‘reasonable measures’ will comprise.

The better defence is to establish the dumped fridge was not hers.
As her son, do you not remember what refrigerator she owned?

[seduraed]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

This may sound silly but look through her photos. Unlikely there will be a picture of the fridge per se, but it might appear in the background.

[Markie G]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

At the same time as demanding to see their evidence she could provide her evidence in order to prove her innocence.

Di

To be fair, we dont think that it is her fridge, however she is not sure. I dont remember to be fair.

Now I am not by any means saying that she did this, but if it was put in the skip and he then took it out, he would be the one fly tipping because I hired a skip a few years back and someone put something in mine and I told the council that I was going to take it out as I paid for the skip. They told me that if I did this, I would be guilty of the offence of fly tipping not them.

With regards to evidence, we are not sure what we are defending as we are saying its not ours. We can not send them anything to prove that, that fridge is not hers. If we knew what evidence they had we could deal with it.

[des8]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

Regarding liability for goods tipped illegally the householder must take reasonable steps to ensure the waste carrier is properly licensed.
She should have got a waste transfer note from him
If she cannot show that, she can be held liable for their actions if fly tipped waste can be traced back to her (see post 9 above)
\the hazardous waste (England and Wales)regulations 2005 apply
Max fine £5000

IMO you must pull out all the stops to show this was not her fridge.
Would friends or neighbours be able to identify it, if you and your mother are uncertain?

[Diana M]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

They won’t let her know what they have as evidence until they take her to a formal interview.

. . . . . I am wondering if I can force them to supply me/her with the evidence, my mum says she has not done it, but without the evidence I don’t know what to tell her. They have only given her 14 days to deal with it

I'm not familiar with the "formal interview" procedure in these circumstances but why don't you find out what that involves and what are the consequences of attending (and who may go with her).

If it's not her fridge then she may be able to make a formal (sworn) statement to that effect and the penalty ticket will be cancelled.

Why not post up the penalty ticket with all personal details removed in case there's something written on it about appealing (or not) despite the Council's view that could only be achieved through court proceedings.

Di

[enaid]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

It seems the draconian £400 fixed penalty notice was only introduced by the Government in May this year as an alternative to prosecuting fly tippers through the courts.

I expect some Councils will see it as a money-spinner



https://www.gov.uk/government/news/n...on-fly-tipping

Di

Yer not wrong especially as There are no restrictions on how councils can use income from fly-tippingFPNs.

[Markie G]

Re: Fixed penalty notice for Fly tipping

Well we have heard nothing so far from them. I called to ask what was happening and they said that some officer was dealing with it. I asked if the reporting officer (the one that issued the FPN) had been back. They said that he had and now was on holiday. So it seems that they never made an attempt to call me to discuss the "evidence. I am assuming that they are going to take this further. Any advise would be helpful about what I can do next, my mum simply can not afford a solicitor, so I need to try to help as much as I can.