Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

[des8]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

Standard policy wording will be something like: " We the insurer will pay damages which you the insured are legally liable to pay following accidental BI , Damage to property etc etc "

It is many years since I drafted Liability policies but, unless there has been a massive change specifics will not be named in the contract wording except as exclusions.

I think, although I have lots of sympathy for EJH, and trust her daughter is recovering well, she will have much difficulty obtaining redress from the landlady.
Assuming the sliding door showed no signs of damage I don't think she could be held liable for its breaking as she could not have been aware of its imminent demise.
On the other hand there is a fair amount of anecdotal proof of shower doors shattering, so perhaps a manufacturing fault.

One other point that worries me is that shower doors, by their very position, are a hazard.
Aren't they supposed to be made of toughened safety glass, which if it breaks shatters into small pieces (like a car windscreen) which do virtually no damage, or will inflict only "minor" cuts.
The young girl concerned here had "several deep cuts". Was hospital treatment necessary or sought?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

Very hard to prove why it broke if there was a fault with glass unless you have some evidence

res ipsa loquitur ...the evidence sometimes speaks for itself so negligence will not always have to be proven.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

Standard policy wording will be something like: " We the insurer will pay damages which you the insured are legally liable to pay following accidental BI , Damage to property etc etc "

It is many years since I drafted Liability policies but, unless there has been a massive change specifics will not be named in the contract wording except as exclusions.

I think, although I have lots of sympathy for EJH, and trust her daughter is recovering well, she will have much difficulty obtaining redress from the landlady.
Assuming the sliding door showed no signs of damage I don't think she could be held liable for its breaking as she could not have been aware of its imminent demise.
On the other hand there is a fair amount of anecdotal proof of shower doors shattering, so perhaps a manufacturing fault.

One other point that worries me is that shower doors, by their very position, are a hazard.
Aren't they supposed to be made of toughened safety glass, which if it breaks shatters into small pieces (like a car windscreen) which do virtually no damage, or will inflict only "minor" cuts.
The young girl concerned here had "several deep cuts". Was hospital treatment necessary or sought?

Generally bathroom shower glass is very strong, however one would think if a vein were there already it wouldn't take much for it to shatter especially if the glass is not so thick. Laminated glass in buses etc for example, or patio windows and doors would have safety glass, is likely to still largely stay in tact. The more expensive the shower glass panel the more likely it should do its job. 'several deep cuts' and 'blood everywhere' is indicative of hospital treatment being necessary unless the op says otherwise.

[ostell]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

From the description (a loud bang) it sounds as though it was toughened glass. A scratch on the surface, particularly at the edge can weaken it enough so that a little bit of additional stress can cause it to disintegrate explosively. It's not particularly anyone's "fault". And probably no negligence.

Hope the young lady recovers without ill effect.

[charitynjw]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

It would appear imho that no-one is specifically to blame.
The landlady (probably) wasn't aware of the potential problem.
The tenant (& daughter) (probably) weren't aware either.

Quick question to whoever reads this:
Do you have a glass shower door?
Were you aware of this problem?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

From the description (a loud bang) it sounds as though it was toughened glass. A scratch on the surface, particularly at the edge can weaken it enough so that a little bit of additional stress can cause it to disintegrate explosively. It's not particularly anyone's "fault". And probably no negligence.

Hope the young lady recovers without ill effect.

If there is a personal injury.....someone is liable. If it's the manufacturer it's Product Liability. Negligence - duty & breach..ie was it reasonable against hypothetical equivalent. The handy-man should have spotted it, at the least.

[charitynjw]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

If there is a personal injury.....someone is liable. If it's the manufacturer it's Product Liability. Negligence - duty & breach..ie was it reasonable against hypothetical equivalent. The handy-man should have spotted it, at the least.

Many/most of the products have been appropriately tested (ie to British Standards).
Due diligence springs to mind.
As does Donaghue v Stevenson & 'reasonably forseeable' as to negligence

If this was 'spontaneous explosion' of the glass, how could the handyman know?

[meellis]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

I certainly wouldn't guess if the handyman is too poor sue or if I felt sorry for the landlady or if there was a fault with the shower door. There is no evidence that the shower door is new or very old. There is no evidence to show that the handyman hasn't just won the lottery. There isn't any evidence that the landlady hasn't just cut costs and had an inferior product installed or good product badly maintained. There isn't even any evidence, apart from the op's account, that the poor young girl wasn't heavy handed. In short there isn't enough evidence to guess at anything. Most modern shower doors would be made to recognised safety standards and should just shatter like a car windscreen. So the best thing is to try and find out the make and model of the shower door and its age. Did the handyman come round to make safe, give an opinion or cover his tracks. Had the screen been altered in any way or repaired and if so who by and at who's request. The landlady will probably blame the young girl for playing with it. In my opinion the best thing to do would try and find out if there is an independent assessor, maybe through the council or HSE who could look into the issue professionally without bias especially if the poor girl was injured in a serious manner. Leave all the guessing of blame to somebody in a position to judge correctly.

[EJH84]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

Hello everyone! THANK YOU SO MUCH for your posts.
I really appreciate all your advice!!!

Apologies for my delayed reply, have been been in transit for a day.

Further details as follows:

Haven't been able to establish the make and model of the shower door - the fitters came to fit a new one, and I asked to keep the old one (well, the frame) in the garden as evidence, so at least that's to hand if need be.

It was, I am told, toughened glass - and when I asked the fitters, they said 'they just collapse sometimes these doors'. I recorded the fitters comments on my phone as a voice note, so I could re-listen and replay them if helpful in future.

The fitters said they had never been to the property before, and hadn't installed the original shower door.

I believe that the Landlady's handyman installed the original shower door - based on the fact that she had previously indicated to me that not only did he maintain the property in her absence, but he also did much or the original building work

The part of the property where the acident happened is an extension spare room, a 'summerhouse' as the Landlady calls it, in the garden - not part of the main buidling - and was built by the Landlady herself (not sure re: planning permissions or inspections)

The Management Agents maintain that the property was inspected before we moved in, and there were no faults detected - although no evidence or documents to this effect have been provided to me

The 4 year old girl in question is very slender and wasn't 'playing' with the door - she had got in the shower to to close it. I have a photo of the aftermath with her footprints clearly visible in the pile of glass. Feet together, next to the door, not wide enough if she were to 'play' with it (kids take a wide stance to get more strength), and she was fully supervised at all times!

Tbf this has been the most upsetting experience by far - I thought a gun had gone off and someone tried to shoot us in the bathroom. The shock was so bad, my daughter refused to shower in the other bathroom 'because it also has glass in it' so as w family we made a decision to leave for a week and stay with my mum so she could have a change of place and recover.

The cuts were bad enough to need plasters, not stitches - and I have (awful) photos of all of those too. Not sure if it helps/or if its possible but happy to post images here if that helps.

Also - Yes we do have a tenancy agreement (and I will email a copy to [MENTION=382]Legal Beagles[/MENTION])

Again, just THANK YOU. To each and every one of you. I hadn't been on this forum before and it was recommended by a friend. I can't tell you how grateful I am for all the posts and insights!!!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

Hello everyone! THANK YOU SO MUCH for your posts.
I really appreciate all your advice!!!

Apologies for my delayed reply, have been been in transit for a day.

Further details as follows:

Haven't been able to establish the make and model of the shower door - the fitters came to fit a new one, and I asked to keep the old one (well, the frame) in the garden as evidence, so at least that's to hand if need be.

It was, I am told, toughened glass - and when I asked the fitters, they said 'they just collapse sometimes these doors'. I recorded the fitters comments on my phone as a voice note, so I could re-listen and replay them if helpful in future.

The fitters said they had never been to the property before, and hadn't installed the original shower door.

I believe that the Landlady's handyman installed the original shower door - based on the fact that she had previously indicated to me that not only did he maintain the property in her absence, but he also did much or the original building work

The part of the property where the acident happened is an extension spare room, a 'summerhouse' as the Landlady calls it, in the garden - not part of the main buidling - and was built by the Landlady herself (not sure re: planning permissions or inspections)

The Management Agents maintain that the property was inspected before we moved in, and there were no faults detected - although no evidence or documents to this effect have been provided to me

The 4 year old girl in question is very slender and wasn't 'playing' with the door - she had got in the shower to to close it. I have a photo of the aftermath with her footprints clearly visible in the pile of glass. Feet together, next to the door, not wide enough if she were to 'play' with it (kids take a wide stance to get more strength), and she was fully supervised at all times!

Tbf this has been the most upsetting experience by far - I thought a gun had gone off and someone tried to shoot us in the bathroom. The shock was so bad, my daughter refused to shower in the other bathroom 'because it also has glass in it' so as w family we made a decision to leave for a week and stay with my mum so she could have a change of place and recover.

The cuts were bad enough to need plasters, not stitches - and I have (awful) photos of all of those too. Not sure if it helps/or if its possible but happy to post images here if that helps.

Also - Yes we do have a tenancy agreement (and I will email a copy to @Legal Beagles)

Again, just THANK YOU. To each and every one of you. I hadn't been on this forum before and it was recommended by a friend. I can't tell you how grateful I am for all the posts and insights!!!

It is just good to hear that your 4 year old wasn't seriously hurt. A change of scenery will be good for you both. If you want to show the photos of her injuries, as she is soo young I don't really think this is suitable. Are you sure there is no glass in her skin..ie if the glass caused the cuts etc ....is there any foreign bodies still in there?

[EJH84]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

It is just good to hear that your 4 year old wasn't seriously hurt. A change of scenery will be good for you both. If you want to show the photos of her injuries, as she is soo young I don't really think this is suitable. Are you sure there is no glass in her skin..ie if the glass caused the cuts etc ....is there any foreign bodies still in there?

I'm assured there are no foreign bodies. It was awful though!
Seems more complicated than expected.

All very stressful - this forum has been a Godsend !

- - - Updated - - -

It is just good to hear that your 4 year old wasn't seriously hurt. A change of scenery will be good for you both. If you want to show the photos of her injuries, as she is soo young I don't really think this is suitable. Are you sure there is no glass in her skin..ie if the glass caused the cuts etc ....is there any foreign bodies still in there?

<br>
<br><br>I'm assured there are no foreign bodies. It was awful though!&nbsp;<br>
Seems more complicated than expected.&nbsp;<br><br>All very stressful - this forum has been a Godsend !

[Openlaw15]

Re: Accident help! Shower door collapsed on daughter

I'm assured there are no foreign bodies. It was awful though!
Seems more complicated than expected.

All very stressful - this forum has been a Godsend !

- - - Updated - - -

<br>
<br><br>I'm assured there are no foreign bodies. It was awful though!&nbsp;<br>
Seems more complicated than expected.&nbsp;<br><br>All very stressful - this forum has been a Godsend !

I bet you were out of your mind with worry....the poor lil thing. Thinks mommy should spoil her :P

[45002]

This thread is from Janaury 2016, over 4 years old !