Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

Clause 7 (7.5) of Op's agreement. Rent reviewed at the end of fixed term (first 12 months is fixed term), subject to thereafter proportionate increase based on the Retail Price Index."

"We were not informed of any rent increase they first advertised the property at the price we were paying and there was lotsof interest and viewings then a few days later they increased it by £75 per month and the viewings stopped. It was only after we told them we couldnt afford to keep paying the costs that they then reduced the price of the rent on the advertisement."

Hmm seems like LL breach right there!

[Crazy council]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

@Openlaw15

I think the rent increase they are on about relates to the re-leting to new ternants, ( the LL could not increase it outside the terms of the contract ) and the terms for ASTs ( assured shorthold tenacys ) start in the housing acts ( 1988, 96, etc etc ), these lay out minimum protections for both sides, so even if the contracts are messed up legally, both the landlord and tenants responsibility and basic contractual terms and conditions are still in affect ( hence the assured part of AST )

Infact, both of them terms are basic conditions.

1. A LL or agent can give immedeate acsess, without notice to the tenant, for GAS WATER ELECTRIC emergancys or to comply with a police or court order ) ( the fire brigade have there own big red keys, fits all doors )

2. A LL or agent can give the tenant 48 hours formal notice that they require acsess to the property ( usualy done less formal by mutual arraingment ) for any reason

there are other terms dealing with when remedial works are required,, etc

The term you mention

Well no this is not true because the tenant has the right to enjoy peaceful enjoyment of the property without interruption by LL or agent, which is based on T &L law,

is also part of basic AST conditions. that term is to protect a tenant from undue harrasment from LLs. eg ;Popping round oftern ( single birds ), undue presure when they are a bit behind on the rent, LLs deciding to remodle the property mid tenacy, etc etc.

@saro87 I need to check something first, but. you probeby are liable up to the 11th jan ( new tenant ), you might be able to argue down the week, your TC does not mention ( on first read ) any options for you to give notice within the first period ( 12 months ) , but, i think it would be 4 months anyhow ( within the first 12 months ) ( thats what i need to check.)

So on initial read, you probably own rent upoto the new tenant ( 12th jan ), if the LL did not try to re-let, contractualy, you would be liable at least till 2nd march, so 11th jan may seem harsh but is fair contractually

Your deposit return, theres probebly a good chance with that, can you give the full details of the landlords statments on the matter

[Openlaw15]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

@Openlaw15

I think the rent increase they are on about relates to the re-leting to new ternants, ( the LL could not increase it outside the terms of the contract ) and the terms for ASTs ( assured shorthold tenacys ) start in the housing acts ( 1988, 96, etc etc ), these lay out minimum protections for both sides, so even if the contracts are messed up legally, both the landlord and tenants responsibility and basic contractual terms and conditions are still in affect ( hence the assured part of AST )

Infact, both of them terms are basic conditions.

1. A LL or agent can give immedeate acsess, without notice to the tenant, for GAS WATER ELECTRIC emergancys or to comply with a police or court order ) ( the fire brigade have there own big red keys, fits all doors )

2. A LL or agent can give the tenant 48 hours formal notice that they require acsess to the property ( usualy done less formal by mutual arraingment ) for any reason

there are other terms dealing with when remedial works are required,, etc

"The term you mention
is also part of basic AST conditions. that term is to protect a tenant from undue harrasment from LLs. eg ;Popping round oftern ( single birds ), undue presure when they are a bit behind on the rent, LLs deciding to remodle the property mid tenacy, etc etc."

Landlord must not substantially interfere with a tenant's right to possession: Celsteel Ltd v Alton House Holdings Ltd [1985] 1 WLR 204

"@saro87 I need to check something first, but. you probeby are liable up to the 11th jan ( new tenant ), you might be able to argue down the week, your TC does not mention ( on first read ) any options for you to give notice within the first period ( 12 months ) , but, i think it would be 4 months anyhow ( within the first 12 months ) ( thats what i need to check.)"

Op appears to have a 12 month lease commencing 2 Jan 2015 and terminating 2 Jan 2016, ie a 12 month lease. Op moved out of property 2 Dec 2015 but gave 1 month's notice 2 Nov 2015 (see post no 5), so this is adequate time, or in any event is one month's notice. as per agreement rules. Op should only be charged for the 12 month period, and for no longer, at the least, which would take it to 2 January 2016. It is arguable that Op should only be charged up to 2 Dec 2015 given LL/ agent has had notice since 2 Nov 2015 to get someone else in. Op's facts indicate that the property has been used during Dec 2015 and perhaps from 2 Dec 2015. by LL/ agent.

{So on initial read, you probably own rent upoto the new tenant ( 12th jan ), if the LL did not try to re-let, contractualy, you would be liable at least till 2nd march, so 11th jan may seem harsh but is fair contractually}

Your deposit return, theres probebly a good chance with that, can you give the full details of the landlords statments on the matter

Read the facts again, perhaps.

[saro87]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

Thank you for taking the time to read through and reply to me. We havent had any details in regards to what they are claiming off our deposit as of yet. My issue is that because they have been accessing the property all this time without us knowing or us being there how do we know they havent damaged something and blaming us? We never broke anything we had 4 people cleaning it before we left so it was spotless. It seems unfair that we are held to the tenancy agreement and coninute paying the rent until the 11th of Jan but they have broken the terms by entering the property without our permission, doesnt this void the agreement in anyway?

[Crazy council]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

Hi
[MENTION=63680]saro87[/MENTION] you have a valid point there

My issue is that because they have been accessing the property all this time without us knowing or us being there how do we know they havent damaged something and blaming us

Do you have a list or anything that the LL has mentioned in rfelation to repairs. It sounds like they are just going to make you deal with paperwork abit to get it back, ( not uncommon )

1. Was there an inventory when you started

[saro87]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

Im not sure if us handing bk the keys to them on the 2nd of December counts as us abandoning the property because after this we then paid the rent, if we didnt abandon then they are entering wiithout permission and breaking the tenancy agreement which i think merits us saying we will not pay an fuurther rent to them.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

Im not sure if us handing bk the keys to them on the 2nd of December counts as us abandoning the property because after this we then paid the rent, if we didnt abandon then they are entering wiithout permission and breaking the tenancy agreement which i think merits us saying we will not pay an fuurther rent to them.

What were the allegations of property damage? What are they saying has been damaged? The Agreement states 'reasonable' amounts for property damage. Reasonable is very subjective - as what is reasonable for LL will not be for tenant. Is this a furnished/ part furnished property? The Agreement does not specify if i remember from yesterday's analysis.

[saro87]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

What were the allegations of property damage? What are they saying has been damaged? The Agreement states 'reasonable' amounts for property damage. Reasonable is very subjective - as what is reasonable for LL will not be for tenant. Is this a furnished/ part furnished property? The Agreement does not specify if i remember from yesterday's analysis.

They havent gone into detail just keep being very vague saying they have found further damage and will send us a final bill when the landlord has a price. On the day he came his issues were with 2 little holes where wed hung a picture, the ooven being clean and he said the house wasnt clean enough, we then fixed the holes, cleaned the oven further and 4 peoople cleaned the house from top to bottom, it was nowhere near that clean when we moved in! It is unfurnished.

[Crazy council]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

hi [MENTION=63680]saro87[/MENTION]

The LL usualy has up to 14 days after your tenancy has ended to raise any objections. This has to be done formaly, giving you the chance to put the right or object. As soon as they provide you with any objections put them on here.

The wording in law is something like " return the property in the same or similar conditions, save as for general wear and tear as would be expected by the tenant over the period of the tenancy "
[MENTION=77627]Openlaw15[/MENTION]

Legalbeagles are good don't get me wrong, but they're just people generally with no legal education except through experience.

experience is invaluable, but, there are some reasonably well qualified and educated readers/posters across this site, ( am just a poster ) but i have many many years professional experience as a property manager 1994- 2003 full time, part time hobby since then. i do try keep amyself updated with case law, i have acsess through my contacts to a decent legal backup for property law, though the old association i belonged to


if your on the VIP side of the site, you would see that i occasionally mention that i do take on difficult tenancy's to bring to a close ( around my local area ) . and you do also get LLs on here that require help with difficult tenancys

Across the breadth of this site, you have posterts with similar education as mine, like baillifs, court officers, ex council legal officers, an ex coppers, theres is a few solisitors and more..

and thats without the site owners/admins.

earlier this year, some dude picked a fight with them ( BPS threads ). they annihilated him, i mean literally annihilated him, i dont recon that dudes going to end up owning his own pants by the time the approch they took against him plays out.

Further, there are a few legal professionals that post on here, from all levels of qualification. and if you know who they are you can generally ask there opinion.

[nemesis45]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

hi @saro87

The LL usualy has up to 14 days after your tenancy has ended to raise any objections. This has to be done formaly, giving you the chance to put the right or object. As soon as they provide you with any objections put them on here.

The wording in law is something like " return the property in the same or similar conditions, save as for general wear and tear as would be expected by the tenant over the period of the tenancy "
@Openlaw15



experience is invaluable, but, there are some reasonably well qualified and educated readers/posters across this site, ( am just a poster ) but i have many many years professional experience as a property manager 1994- 2003 full time, part time hobby since then. i do try keep amyself updated with case law, i have acsess through my contacts to a decent legal backup for property law, though the old association i belonged to


if your on the VIP side of the site, you would see that i occasionally mention that i do take on difficult tenancy's to bring to a close ( around my local area ) . and you do also get LLs on here that require help with difficult tenancys

Across the breadth of this site, you have posterts with similar education as mine, like baillifs, court officers, ex council legal officers, an ex coppers, theres is a few solisitors and more..

and thats without the site owners/admins.

earlier this year, some dude picked a fight with them ( BPS threads ). they annihilated him, i mean literally annihilated him, i dont recon that dudes going to end up owning his own pants by the time the approch they took against him plays out.

Further, there are a few legal professionals that post on here, from all levels of qualification. and if you know who they are you can generally ask there opinion.

Well said CC!!!

[Openlaw15]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

hi @saro87

The LL usualy has up to 14 days after your tenancy has ended to raise any objections. This has to be done formaly, giving you the chance to put the right or object. As soon as they provide you with any objections put them on here.

The wording in law is something like " return the property in the same or similar conditions, save as for general wear and tear as would be expected by the tenant over the period of the tenancy "
@Openlaw15

experience is invaluable, but, there are some reasonably well qualified and educated readers/posters across this site, ( am just a poster ) but i have many many years professional experience as a property manager 1994- 2003 full time, part time hobby since then. i do try keep amyself updated with case law, i have acsess through my contacts to a decent legal backup for property law, though the old association i belonged to

To be fair I posted that in relation to an issue concerning a contract matter, ie an excessive mileage charge. This is a housing, property forum, so I think it's a bit unfair as the allusion is I posted it here where and when i did no such thing. I would generally not say anything negative unless it were appropriate to do so. I do not interrupt the competence of Nemesis et al where the person makes valid contributions relating to court procedure and therein providing such drafts.


if your on the VIP side of the site, you would see that i occasionally mention that i do take on difficult tenancy's to bring to a close ( around my local area ) . and you do also get LLs on here that require help with difficult tenancys

Across the breadth of this site, you have posterts with similar education as mine, like baillifs, court officers, ex council legal officers, an ex coppers, theres is a few solisitors and more..

and thats without the site owners/admins.

earlier this year, some dude picked a fight with them ( BPS threads ). they annihilated him, i mean literally annihilated him, i dont recon that dudes going to end up owning his own pants by the time the approch they took against him plays out.

Further, there are a few legal professionals that post on here, from all levels of qualification. and if you know who they are you can generally ask there opinion.

I am not too interested in qualifications as such, just that the person is equipped to help.

[saro87]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

Hi again

So as you can guess with my posting again this issue has still not been resolved!

The new tenant moved in on the 11th of Jan and we waited for a bill to arrive which did not. We coontacted the agency who said the amount the landlady had requested they felt was too high and they had asked her to re-consider. I wrote back saying i disagree with any charges (as i detailed before we left the house in a better state than when we moved in) i also told them about catching her in the property without our permisson whilst we were still paying rent.

Still had no reply from them or bill so i have decdied to go down the route of doig a statutory declaration to the dps. My question is when should i pout the tenancy end date? we left on the 2nd of decemember before our agrrementt had ended, but we paid decembers rent anyway up until the 3rd of January. the new tenants moved in on the 11th of january thus ending our agreement. So do i put the 11th? or the date until last rent was paid?

Thanks

[Crazy council]

Re: Complicated problem - desperate for advice!

Hi

Its the 11th ( the date the LL got new tenants ), if i remeber correctly you had a yearly contract and was only 6 months in, looking through your contract there was no break period ( usually is, usually 4 month notice ) , that would have put your notice at march i think.

When the LL got new tenants, he ended your tenancy then, Ie, your rent was due untill the 11th jan.

I think, the LL had rights to go in the property once you have left, and that doesn't meen you then dont owe for rent, infarct, a LL HAS to enter a property, if its left more than 30 days ( to maintain there insurances )

I think your problem is going to be you left stuff in the property,