Boundary fence built to 2.4M

[MSA]

Hi all,

I'm looking for the forums thoughts on this one......

My neighbour built a 2.4M+ fence on our boundary, after the initial intervention during the construction I backed off to avoid confrontation. One of the neighbours was in his 80's and shouting loudly.
The fence impacts on our courtyard garden which is about 5M wide.
The fence in question has the "T" facing inwards to my property on the title/plan.
I contacted the local council enforcement team who agreed it was outside of "permitted development".
Retrospective planning and listed building consent was applied for by the neighbour, at the request of the council.
The submitted plans showed the fence at a height of 1.97M.
I remained neutral on the planning application as long as the fence did not exceed the 1.97M, this was documented with pictures of the existing 2.4M fence. An noted within council correspondence.
Permissions granted.
No change to fence height.
Contacted the council enforcement team, who did nothing.
Raised an official complaint with the council, they sided with the neighbour.
Second complaint, they sided with the neighbour.
The local councillor visited our home and agreed that the fence is a monstrosity and is detrimental to our property.
Raised a case with the Ombudsman who will not pursue the case.

Given that the "T" faces inwards, is this fence mine and what are peoples thoughts as to what I should do next? I have a very confrontational (I'm not afraid of the confrontation) neighbour and I don't want things to escalate, but, I am not willing to live with a 2.4M fence blocking my light, this has caused my wife and I a lot of stress and has been going on for a year and a half.

The neighbour has the larger and more substantial property and I think may have some influence over the council.

Thanks in advance and looking forward to everyone's input,

[echat11]

Hi MSA

Welcome to LB

The easiest way to answer your question is, if you actually ask your neighbours along your street. For example, they will all be responsible for the fence on the left hand side etc.

but the following might apply -

When looking at the plans, the ownership is indicated by a 'T' marked on the plans on one side of a boundary.

If the 'T' is written on your side of the boundary, you're responsible for maintaining it.
If there's an H (although actually it's two joined Ts) the boundary is the joint responsibility of both parties.

If you have a joint boundary, and you have a party fence, you'll have to speak to your neighbour and work out what you want to do such as taking it in turns to care for your fencing. You can buy out your neighbour, you must go through a proper, legally recorded sale process to make this official.

Have you got legal expenses insurance?

[MSA]

Hi ECHAT11,

Thanks for the response.

Ours is a weird one, we both share the grounds within a stately home garden wall. The fence erected divides our property from theirs, it is around 7M long.

The "T" on the plans/title is definitely 100% facing towards our property and therefore is our responsibility, the neighbour removed it and replaced it without our written permission, we had discussed it verbally but had not agreed on anything. Unfortunately the neighbour is completely unapproachable on this matter.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Kind regards,

MSA

[atticus]

Have you raised with the planning department the fact that the fence does not comply with the retrospective permission?

[EDIT - I see you have, sorry].

As to 'T' marks, although they are often considered to indicate responsibility for maintenance of the boundary structures, the Land Registry says this:

'T' marks on deed plans which are not referred to in the text of a deed have no special force or meaning in law and unless an applicant specifically requests that the 'T' marks be shown on the title plan, we will normally ignore them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-of-boundaries - Section 8.

[MSA]

Hiya ATTICUS,

I have gone through the council enforcement team, the complaints process and followed up with the ombudsman, all to no avail.

Kind regards,

MSA

[echat11]

Did the Council tell you why they gave permission on 2.4m, when you complained in writing objecting to that height?
Permitted Development states that you need permission over 2m.

This is a long shot, but lodge a complaint with the LGO, they can't turn over a planning decision, but they can find out why it was granted when you had objected in writing.

https://www.lgo.org.uk/how-to-complain

Edited, so you've contacted the Ombudsman?

Also have you got legal expenses with your household insurance?

Have you contacted your MP?

Because it's been built and approved by the Council, there in lies the difficulty, a Court more then likely will wonder why the case has been brought to Court. I get the bit about it being your responsibility, but has it been built in the right place?

I get that the height is the issue.

[MSA]

Hiya Atticus,

Our title deed has a section that says:
"All boundary walls fences and hedges or plots marked with a "T" mark on the plan annexed hereto shall belong to the property and shall at all times hereafter be kept by the owner of the property in good repair and condition".

Just a little extra info.

Kind regards,

MSA

[atticus]

Then that is what gives you ownership.

You could inform your neighbour that as the boundary fence belongs to you, you intend to implement the planning permission.

[MSA]

Hi Atticus,

Those were my thoughts, I will consult with a local Solicitor and inform them in writing, I believe I have to be very careful, as mentioned, they are very confrontational and believe that shouting at people is the way forward.

Kind regards,

MSA

[echat11]

Hi Atticus,

Those were my thoughts, I will consult with a local Solicitor and inform them in writing, I believe I have to be very careful, as mentioned, they are very confrontational and believe that shouting at people is the way forward.

Kind regards,

MSA

This isn't a job for any solicitor, it's one that deals with Boundary Disputes / Party Walls.

Also you can send the Planning Department a SAR request

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

[MSA]

Hi ECHAT11,

Answers under your questions:

Did the Council tell you why they gave permission on 2.4m, when you complained in writing objecting to that height?
Permitted Development states that you need permission over 2m.
I Informed the council that it was 2.4M and they visited, measured themselves and agreed. They did not give permission for a 2.4M fence only 1.97M but have deemed that it does not harm our property.

This is a long shot, but lodge a complaint with the LGO, they can't turn over a planning decision, but they can find out why it was granted when you had objected in writing.
I will do.

https://www.lgo.org.uk/how-to-complain

Edited, so you've contacted the Ombudsman?
Yes and they will not pursue it.

Also have you got legal expenses with your household insurance?
I will check on this, it never really crossed my mind.

Have you contacted your MP?
No, but it had crossed my mind. I did contact our county councillor who visited and agreed it was a monstrosity.

Because it's been built and approved by the Council, there in lies the difficulty, a Court more then likely will wonder why the case has been brought to Court. I get the bit about it being your responsibility, but has it been built in the right place?
Yes it was built in exactly the same position but 0.5M higher.

I get that the height is the issue.

Thanks for all of your input,

MSA

[PallasAthena]

Is the fence on the boundary line or built just inside the the boundary on the neighbour's land? If the latter the neighbour is entitled to do that as it would be on his land and his fence. It's the planning issue that comes into play but I doubt that planning law would justify what would likely be criminal damage if you chainsawed 0.5m off the top of his fence.

[MSA]

Is the fence on the boundary line or built just inside the the boundary on the neighbour's land? If the latter the neighbour is entitled to do that as it would be on his land and his fence. It's the planning issue that comes into play but I doubt that planning law would justify what would likely be criminal damage if you chainsawed 0.5m off the top of his fence.

Hi PallasAthena,

The fence is built on the boundary line, on top of a small brick wall, this is identified in the plans/title, it clearly is on the boundary, the fence built replaced an existing fence that was built in the 1980's when the properties were separated.
The title/plan has this:
"All boundary walls fences and hedges or plots marked with a "T" mark on the plan annexed hereto shall belong to the property and shall at all times hereafter be kept by the owner of the property in good repair and condition".
The "T" faces inwards to our property.

Thanks in advance,

MSA

[MSA]

Hi PallasAthena,

The fence is built on the boundary line, on top of a small brick wall, this is identified in the plans/title, it clearly is on the boundary, the fence built replaced an existing fence that was built in the 1980's when the properties were separated.
The title/plan has this:
"All boundary walls fences and hedges or plots marked with a "T" mark on the plan annexed hereto shall belong to the property and shall at all times hereafter be kept by the owner of the property in good repair and condition".
The "T" faces inwards to our property.

Thanks in advance,

MSA

PS - I have considered the chainsaw option :-)

[MSA]

This isn't a job for any solicitor, it's one that deals with Boundary Disputes / Party Walls.

Also you can send the Planning Department a SAR request

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

Hi Echat11,

A data access request has been sent.

Thank you,