Urgent advice needed re-council

[wood73]

Hi
My daughter suffered a house fire on sunday morning, which has destroyed the kitchen and heavy smoke damage to the entire house.
This was apparently caused by the fridge freezer although there have been problems with the electrics in the house since she moved in just over a year ago, including a plug socket going on fire.
The advice I'm after now is regarding repairs to the house and kitchen, as the council are saying as it was the fridge freezer that was the cause she has to pay all the cost of repairs to the house.
She is a single mother of 3 small children and on benefits so they have said they would make a payment arrangement when they work out how much it is going to cost.
To my mind the damage to the property should be covered by a buildings insurance as she cannot get insurance to cover this anyway being a tenant.
Unfortunately she has no contents cover so this is going to cost a lot anyway without the council slapping her with a large bill.
Obviously if the fire was caused deliberately or by negligence I could understand but this is not the case here.
Any advice is welcomed, and thank you in advance.
Rob

[Kati]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

tagging [MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION]

[des8]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

Hi and welcome
Sorry to hear of your daughters fire... I know first hand how devastating it can be.

First thing to check is her tenancy agreement to see what it says about tenant's liability.
The next question arises about cause of fire.
You say "This was apparently caused by the fridge freezer".
Is that the conclusion of the investigating fire officer's report? (I'm surprised it has been prepared that quickly),
If so she needs to obtain a copy of that report, to see how definite that conclusion is.
Any uncertainty (eg apparently does not sound like definitely) and I would be challenging the findings, especially as there have been previous recorded problems with the electricity installation.
Depending on the exact details it might well be worth having the appliance and house electrics checked by her own electrician


However the council will almost certainly have a blanket policy covering all their properties against fire damage (although with a fairly hefty excess) and your daughter could suggest they make a claim under that. The insurers are unlikely to pursue her for recompense in any event.

[wood73]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

she has been told by the council that the fire officer has said this but the report wont be completed for a few weeks as he is now on annual leave.
unfortunately funds do not allow getting an independent inspection at the moment but I will be taking extensive photos of the fridge freezer and areas of damage, in case they come in handy at a later stage.
Would it be worth contacting indesit, as the fridge freezer was less than 18 months old.
The concern I have with the electrics is that although the house is fitted with a modern tripswitch fuse box the power never tripped until the kitchen was well ablaze, and it never tripped when the plug socket went on fire previously, but the council electrician said there was no fault.

[des8]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

Certainly, if the appliance was at fault, and it was only 18 months old, the RETAILER should be informed. Her contract was with the retailer, not the manufacturer.
Claims can be made for faulty goods up to 6 years after purchase.
One would anticipate a fridge freezer lasting longer than 18 months, so it fails the Consumer Rights Act 2015 requirement to be of satisfactory quality.
If she can make that claim successfully, she can then also claim damages, which would cover her own personal losses as well as the council's claim.

In the meantime she tells the council that she cannot agree their claim until such time as she receives and agrees the fire officers report.

Also do examine the area around the socket to see if the fire could have started there.
Take the socket apart if it is burnt and examine the wiring within.
Examine the connections within the socket to see if there are signs of pitting or shorting.

If you suspect the house wiring could have been faulty, in spite of the council's pet electrician, you really need to have it examined by an independent electrician before any rewiring takes place

[Crazy council]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

Deffinatly contact the place your purchased and the manufaturer , what make fidge/freezer was it

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2017/09...rs-says-which/

[wood73]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

Hi
Thanks for the replies, the fire service have now said the fridge freezer was at fault.
The retailer has since closed down but she has been in touch with indesit and they are in the first instance sending her a new unit, and there loss and compensation dept are sending out a loss adjuster.
getting nowhere with the council but I now have a copy of the tenancy agreement which states damages are to be paid for if it was caused by neglect, recklessness or deliberate act.
I am going to see the mp's secretary hopefully Monday morning to try and get to grips with the council.

The council have also told her when they begin the repairs they want all the keys to the house and she will have no access, whilst understand health and safety the property still contains most of her personal possessions.

[des8]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

[QUOTE=wood73;759965]Hi
Thanks for the replies, the fire service have now said the fridge freezer was at fault. Thank goodness for that
The retailer has since closed down but she has been in touch with indesit and they are in the first instance sending her a new unit, and there loss and compensation dept are sending out a loss adjuster. That sounds positive
getting nowhere with the council but I now have a copy of the tenancy agreement which states damages are to be paid for if it was caused by neglect, recklessness or deliberate act.
Which they will have to prove> in view of fire service report at least an apology from the council is required for scaring the bejaysus out of your daughter
I am going to see the mp's secretary hopefully Monday morning to try and get to grips with the council.

The council have also told her when they begin the repairs they want all the keys to the house and she will have no access, whilst understand health and safety the property still contains most of her personal possessions.
As the house & contents will presumably need complete cleaning due to smoke damage, include that in the claim to Indesit, as well as storage while works are carried out.
Also they should pay for alternative accommodation if necessary whilst works carried out[/QUOTE]

comments in red

[wood73]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

Im wondering if the council were just hoping she would just roll over and agree to pay, because the way they have put it to her is that because its her appliance she has to pay for the repairs.
There has been no mention of negligence etc, if this is the case it sounds like a bit of deception which if it was the other way around they would be trying to prosecute............any thoughts on this?

Up to now everyrhing has been in either face to face conversation or on the phone but i think it may be time to get stuff in writing off them.

Where do we stand on getting the electrical safety certificate off them as theyre saying they dont have to produce it.

Sorry for drolling on but if they want to play hard ball ill take them on!

[des8]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

I don't think in England & Wales that the landlord has to produce Electrical Installation Condition Report for examination by the tenant, although the law in Scotland is different.

As I said the least your daughter should be receiving is a letter of apology, but I doubt there are grounds for more, but tagging [MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] for more ideas.

[Crazy council]

Re: Urgent advice needed re-council

Hi

Some fridge freezers are susceptible to faults ( hence the witch add i linked to ). But, dodgy electrics can also cause freezers faults. Worth asking the council what test they did after the prior socket fire. What was the cause of the overload that caused that.

You might not get this next bit but fire inspector/sparky might.

Freezer fires can also be caused by low incoming voltage over a long period. Incoming voltage ( 240 ) is not stable ( ( 220 - 250 say ). the compressor draws more amps ( gets hotter than planned ). Modern Freezers with plastic backing instead of metal grills are more susceptible than older ones.

Ask the council/ if they checked frequency and current in after the socket fire. It will stop them just blaming you.