Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

[Tigs]

I am an accidental landlord and I would be grateful for some ideas, hints and tips from members please.

1. A tenant stopped paying rent when served with a Section 21 Notice and a decision under the accelerated possession route is awaited;
2. A MCOL claim for rent arrears is pending in relation to earlier rent arrears. But the rent arrears are on-going.

Query:-
I'd be grateful for advice on how I can incorporate the on-going rent arrears into the current claim to avoid filing multiple claims at Court.

Please let me know if any aspect requires clairification.

I thank you all.

[Tools]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

I am afraid you would have to apply to the court to amend the claim value.

[PlanB]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

A MCOL claim for rent arrears is pending in relation to earlier rent arrears. But the rent arrears are on-going.

Query:-
I'd be grateful for advice on how I can incorporate the on-going rent arrears into the current claim to avoid filing multiple claims at Court.

Short answer? You can't.

[Tigs]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Thank you Tools. Do I write a letter to the Court or file an application formally?

[PlanB]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Thank you Tools. Do I write a letter to the Court or file an application formally?

Tigs your application is for possession of the property under section 21. You cannot amend your claim in my humble opinion. This is not a MCOL money claim.

Wait for Tools to disagree with me.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Tigs your application is for possession of the property under section 21. You cannot amend your claim in my humble opinion. This is not a MCOL money claim.

Wait for Tools to disagree with me.

[PlanB]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

1. A tenant stopped paying rent when served with a Section 21 Notice and a decision under the accelerated possession route is awaited;
2. A MCOL claim for rent arrears is pending in relation to earlier rent arrears. But the rent arrears are on-going.

Query:-
I'd be grateful for advice on how I can incorporate the on-going rent arrears into the current claim to avoid filing multiple claims at Court.

You have two claims running concurrently which has complicated things.

Your first claim is for possession of the property under section 21 (no fault) but I can't find any update on what stage these proceedings have reached on your various threads. Did your tenants file a Defence and/or a Counterclaim for damp or repairs etc? I'm guessing that you didn't include a section 8 claim for rent arrears in those proceedings. You will 'win' this case and get possession unless any of the paperwork is flawed. If your Tenants have filed a Defence or Counterclaim there will be a hearing. What have you heard so far from the court?

Your second claim is for rent arrears through the County Court. According to another thread you say that the Tenants filed an Acknowledgement of Service but you don't say whether the Tenants told the court if they intended to Defend the Claim or not on the AOS. On 8th January you say you attempted to apply for a judgement online but the system requested a Certificate of Service from you. Did you provide that to the court and are now waiting to enter judgement?

If you've got as far as seeking a Default Judgement I can't see how you can increase the amount claimed now. In fact you won't know the full amount owed until the property is vacated following a visit by bailiffs following an eviction order following the possession order. You may have no option but to issue further proceedings once the final amount can be quantified.

You also still have the Tenants' deposit so that may become a further complication. At the moment that money belongs to the Tenants while you, or one of the custodial schemes, hold it 'in Trust'. It's not your money to deduct any rent owed until the scheme says you can. Now there's a further complication which is the TDS won't arbitrate on a dispute if court proceedings have already been issued. They will hold on to this money until the court has made an order. The court will consider whether the tenancy agreement allows for rent arrears. Some say the deposit can only be used for dilapidations, while others will also say "and any breaches of the agreement" which would include non-payment of rent due.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...149#post400149


If your Tenants are claiming Housing Benefit you can apply to the Local Authority to have that paid direct to you once those arrears are over eight weeks or two months late. You don't need your Tenants' authority to do this. I think you said in another thread that your Tenants may be employed but there is still the possibility that they don't earn enough to take them over the threshold for HB so they may be receiving a small subsidy even if not the whole rent. If the Tenancy is in joint names then Mrs Tenant will be able to claim HB for her 50% rent liability, and I think you said somewhere that she was a stay-at-home mother with small children (I may have got that bit wrong) so in theory she would be entitled to claim HB but without knowing the full financial circumstances it's impossible to guess. Call the Council as your starting point.

[Tigs]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Thank you for reading and responding to my post.

If I can clarify, the possession claim is separate. In addition, I have filed 2 MCOL claims the first one of which has a default judgment in my favour. The second MCOL claim is being defended by some spurious harassment and disrepair allegations - but no counter claim has been entered. In the meanwhile, the arrears are accruing. It is the accruing arrears issue that I'm now seeking assisitance as to the possibility of amending my PoC so that I do not have to file another claim for subsequent rent arrears.

I hope I have clarified the issues. I'm sorry if my earlier post did not make the sitution clear enough.

Thank you once again.

[Tigs]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Plan B - Thank you very much for taking the trouble to read my post and providing me with such a comprehensive response.

I'm reading your response carefully and I will fill in gaps in information later today and get back to you.

[PlanB]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

the possession claim is separate. In addition, I have filed 2 MCOL claims the first one of which has a default judgment in my favour. The second MCOL claim is being defended by some spurious harassment and disrepair allegations - but no counter claim has been entered. In the meanwhile, the arrears are accruing. It is the accruing arrears issue that I'm now seeking assisitance as to the possibility of amending my PoC so that I do not have to file another claim for subsequent rent arrears.

If your Tenants have filed a Defence based on harassment it may not be wise to keep issuing more and more court claims. You already have three travelling through the system. While you are perfectly entitled to claim rent owed to you please be careful that you are not seen as vindictive or vexatious. I'm not suggesting that you are for one minute, and I can see that this is a very frustrating time for you since this property is/was your home.

Which scheme holds the Tenants' deposit? Or do you hold it and have it protected/insured by mydeposits?

[PlanB]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Plan B - Thank you very much for taking the trouble to read my post and providing me with such a comprehensive response.

Tigs, I learnt the hard way. Next week I have to pay £11k to an ex-tenant's lawyers because I made an error of judgment back in 2010. I took a tenant to court and they got a Legal Aid barrister to represent them. I pulled out of the proceedings when I realized the tenant was on benefits so didn't have the money to pay me even if I won my case (which I would have) so it was a waste of time obtaining a CCJ. By then I had run up a £11k legal bill.

I have learnt from that bitter experience that courts are biased in favour of the tenant every time. Once the tenant accuses a landlord of harassment the game changes. Even if your claim is in the Smalls Claims Court you can still be liable for the other side's legal costs if your conduct comes into question. I don't know the sums involved but if the court feels that you are issuing multiple claims to keep the proceedings out of the Fast Track then they may take a negative view on costs.

Is there still no hope that this can be settled by court mediation? If your tenants have filed a Defence then this option should be suggested by the court. I urge you to seriously consider it. I belive the expression is don't throw good money after bad.

[wales01man]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

I would guess that the Tenants do not give a toss about any CCJ that may go against them they are probably waiting to be kicked out and take a chance of getting some of the deposit back.
With everything that's posted on here by the OP I have to agree that they are throwing good money after bad and by issuing more legal papers are winding the tenants up at the moment they have the upper hand until the bailiffs come and evict them how long that takes and the total costs of ALL these action will keep rising until that day.

[Tigs]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

PlanB - Thank you for this detailed analysis.

I am sorry for the disparate threads that I've posted which can be confusing to the reader. I'm still trying to find a way of rolling the threads posted so that the unfolding sequence of events can be captured in a chronological order.

I hope the following brief chronology might help fill some of the information gaps:-

1. Background - I'm an accidental l/lord and was persuaded by retired neighbours to take in their g/daughter's family as tenants. The neighbours acted as a go-between to the extent of taking possession of the house keys and handing them over to the in-coming tenants. A falling out has proved catastrophic in damaging a once affable and neighbourly relationship.


2. The tenants have a history of refusing me reasonable access to the house for maintenance and compliance reasons.

3. I served a S21 Notice which expired and accelerated possession proceedings are in progress. I do not yet know if the tenants will/have file/d a defence - the deadline of which is around mid-week this coming week.

4. Rent payments stopped, and the first claim (for rent arrears) through MCOL resulted in a default judgment following which I applied to the Court for an attachment of earnings - the tenant has until mid-week this week to respond to file a response with the Court. The idea of filing this claim appealed to me because I wanted to put the tie the tenants into the Court's case management process in case the did a runner and I wouldn't know where to find them. I still believe that the tenants will do a runner!

5. Rent arrears continued to accrue. A call with the Court staff convinced me that I should file a second claim. This claim has been defended within the allowable 28-day period. The tenants have raised spurious arguments and their defence reads as follows (quote):-
"The claimant has been made aware on numerous occasions that the house needs serious repair work but chooses not to take notice. His negligence and intimidating attitude have caused damage to personal belongings and the defendants health. The defendants son has recurring trouble with his breathing when he is ill. The sencond defendant has been to see the doctor as her hair was falling out and he suggested she was stressed due to harassment from the claimant."

6. The tenants continue to live in the house and rent arrears continue to accrue. It is against this background that I am seeking advice from members as to the best approach in seeking redress in filing a claim for the subsequent and on-going rent arrears.

I hope I've clarified the situation so that you can best be able to help me please.

[Tigs]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Thank you once again PlanB. You guessed right, I have the deposit covered or rather insured by Mydeposits.

Now that you say it, I can see how filing multiple claims might be perceived as harassment. It had never occorred to me otherwise. Thank you once again for your time, thoughts and suggestions.

[Tigs]

Re: Advice sought on how to frame claim for ongoing rent arrears debt

Points gratefully taken, thank you Wales01man.