Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

[vok73]

Hi,
this is my first post and I apologize if by mistake I did not pick the correct section.

I received a call from Rossendales few days ago asking me to pay £50,000 Capital contribution order for my defense expenses after my conviction in 2016. I had already paid 5k as income contribution order before the conviction.
I told them that I prefer to receive any communication by letter as I like to keep evidence. I did not confirm anything on the phone and I told them that I would have made my enquires to the Legal Aid Agency via a Subject Access Request.
So far I have not received any Capital contribution order notification from Legal Aid Agency.

Details:
I did not go to the trial as I pleaded guilty.
I have two jointly properties with my wife but not liquidity in my bank account as I paid the Court confiscation order in full leaving me with not cash at all. The two jointly properties were already declare during the means test.
The two properties have outstanding mortgages.
Currently I am jobless and receiving JSA.
I live with my wife and two young children.
The total equity is over threshold of £30,000 so I am probably liable to pay something even if I strongly believe 50k is excessive and not yet supported by evidence.
I would like to protect my wife and children first.
Can I transfer my share of the two properties in my wife sole name or the name of a trustee, and form a Family Protection Trust or a property protection trust.
If this is legally possible, how much could cost and which are the negative consequences to use a Trust, such as taxes or future costs?

Thank You very much for your help

[18 lion]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property,,,!,,,!,, Hi


Hi, this is also my first post ,my post would have read the same ,please help as my family are so worried many thanks
MENTION][/MENTION]

Hi,
this is my first post and I apologize if by mistake I did not pick the correct section.

I received a call from Rossendales few days ago asking me to pay £50,000 Capital contribution order for my defense expenses after my conviction in 2016. I had already paid 5k as income contribution order before the conviction.
I told them that I prefer to receive any communication by letter as I like to keep evidence. I did not confirm anything on the phone and I told them that I would have made my enquires to the Legal Aid Agency via a Subject Access Request.
So far I have not received any Capital contribution order notification from Legal Aid Agency.

Details:
I did not go to the trial as I pleaded guilty.
I have two jointly properties with my wife but not liquidity in my bank account as I paid the Court confiscation order in full leaving me with not cash at all. The two jointly properties were already declare during the means test.
The two properties have outstanding mortgages.
Currently I am jobless and receiving JSA.
I live with my wife and two young children.
The total equity is over threshold of £30,000 so I am probably liable to pay something even if I strongly believe 50k is excessive and not yet supported by evidence.
I would like to protect my wife and children first.
Can I transfer my share of the two properties in my wife sole name or the name of a trustee, and form a Family Protection Trust or a property protection trust.
If this is legally possible, how much could cost and which are the negative consequences to use a Trust, such as taxes or future costs?

Thank You very much for your help

[Kati]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

tagging [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] ??

[18 lion]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

tagging @des8 ??

Thanks for replying ,I am in a serious situation as same as the person in the original post .Please tell me how you post helps as I cannot open it ,it just says you want to lend me money? Thanks 18lion

[des8]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

Morning!

18 lion : I don't think our [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] was offering a loan, but just alerting me to this thread.

This is not a problem I have encountered, but my initial thoughts are:
Rossendales are simply debt collectors, so my initial reaction would be to refuse to discuss matters with them (especially on the ;phone).
Reply to any communication from them that the matter is in dispute, you are in contact with the Legal Aid commission and R should return the matter to their principals.
However they won't play fair and have a reputation for making things up as they go along.
.
I would have thought, as the debt is the defenders alone, that the equity in any jointly owned property is split between the owners. The partner should not in fairness be forced to pay the debts of the other. Accordingly I would be enquiring with Legal Services Commission exactly what criteria are used regarding joint equity.

I have to go out, but I'll do some research and come back later

[des8]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

Sorry, but contrary to my comments in the last paragraph it appears that the total equity of both partners in the properties is taken into account.
The Criminal Legal Aid (Contribution Orders) Regulations 2013 sec 4 states " Where an individual has a partner .....any reference in these Regulations to the.......capital of the individual includes a reference to the........capital of the individual’s partner,"
This is reinforced in Sec 28 (4) (c) wherein it states: "where an individual owns an interest in specified capital jointly or in common with any other person (other than the individual’s partner), the Director must treat that resource as being owned in equal shares ....."

Sec 38 deals with deprivation of resources so implementing your suggestions about disposing of the properties will not assist as they will be
treated as not converted.

You do have a right of review (28 day time limit) of the decision by applying to the Director of the Legal Aid Agency (Sec 39) on three grounds:

(a)

there has been a miscalculation of the individual’s income or capital or the cost of representation;

(b)

there has been an administrative error; or

(c)

the individual is suffering or would suffer financial hardship as a result of making the payment.

It seems (contrary to earlier advice) that you should make representations to Rossers first, and when they are rejected appeal directly to the Director of the LAA (but watch that time limit)

[des8]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

This is from Criminal Legal Aid Manual:
"Once the case has finished, the applicant’s capital position must be confirmed and the final defencecost established. Confirming the capital position includes a range of checks with third parties, suchas Land Registry and credit reference agencies. The LAA is responsible for this, but you mustensure that information regarding capital is accurately recorded on MAAT. Where there is anamount to pay from capital, Rossendales will notify the client by way of a Capital Contribution Orderdetailing the amount they owe, how to pay and when.In certain circumstances, Rossendales are able to enter into repayment agreements."

I understand (but haven't been able to cross check this)that a capital contribution order must state—
(a)the amount payable under the order;
(b)that the amount must be paid within 28 days of the order or within such other period as may be agreed by LAA and the individual;
(c)the remedies available to the LAA as a creditor if payment is not made by the due date;
(d)that if a payment is not made by the due date compound interest at the rate of 6% a year with half-yearly rests may be added to that payment from that date;
(e)the individual’s right under regulation 39.

[vok73]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

[quote] It seems (contrary to earlier advice) that you should make representations to Rossers first, and when they are rejected appeal directly to the Director of the LAA (but watch that time limit)[quote]#

please check again reg.39(2) The Criminal Legal Aid (Contribution Orders) Regulations 2013.
It appears that for the review of the determination the individual does not need to inform Rossedales. The application must be made to Legal Aid Agency directly.


Review of a determination

39.—(1) An individual whom the Director has determined is liable to make a payment may apply to the Director for a review of the determination, on the grounds that—

(a)

there has been a miscalculation of the individual’s income or capital or the cost of representation;

(b)

there has been an administrative error; or

(c)

the individual is suffering or would suffer financial hardship as a result of making the payment.
(2) An application must be made in a form specified by the Lord Chancellor.(3) An application under paragraph (1)(a) or (b) must be made within—

(a)

28 days of the date that the contribution order is issued; or

(b)

such other period as may be agreed by the Director and the individual.
(4) A review may be conducted without a hearing.(5) The Director must consider the application and may—

(a)

confirm the determination and notify the individual that the individual remains liable to make a payment under the determination;

(b)

withdraw the determination; or

(c)

vary the determination and amend the contribution order accordingly.
(6) Where the Director—

(a)

withdraws a determination and the individual has already made a payment in excess of the amount to which the individual is liable; or

(b)

varies a determination such that—

(i)

the individual is liable to make a payment of a lower amount; and

(ii)

the individual has already made a payment in excess of the amount to which the individual is liable,
the Lord Chancellor must repay to the individual the amount of such payment together with compound interest thereon from the date of the payment at the rate of 2% per year with yearly rests.

[18 lion]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

[QUOTE=vok73;760782][quote] It seems (contrary to earlier advice) that you should make representations to Rossers first, and when they are rejected appeal directly to the Director of the LAA (but watch that time limit)

#

please check again reg.39(2) The Criminal Legal Aid (Contribution Orders) Regulations 2013.
It appears that for the review of the determination the individual does not need to inform Rossedales. The application must be made to Legal Aid Agency directly.


Review of a determination
Thanks so much for your advise,yes I think they can take what they want.but another question is there a limit to what they can charge?
39.—(1) An individual whom the Director has determined is liable to make a payment may apply to the Director for a review of the determination, on the grounds that—

(a)

there has been a miscalculation of the individual’s income or capital or the cost of representation;

(b)

there has been an administrative error; or

(c)

the individual is suffering or would suffer financial hardship as a result of making the payment.
(2) An application must be made in a form specified by the Lord Chancellor.(3) An application under paragraph (1)(a) or (b) must be made within—

(a)

28 days of the date that the contribution order is issued; or

(b)

such other period as may be agreed by the Director and the individual.
(4) A review may be conducted without a hearing.(5) The Director must consider the application and may—

(a)

confirm the determination and notify the individual that the individual remains liable to make a payment under the determination;

(b)

withdraw the determination; or

(c)

vary the determination and amend the contribution order accordingly.
(6) Where the Director—

(a)

withdraws a determination and the individual has already made a payment in excess of the amount to which the individual is liable; or

(b)

varies a determination such that—

(i)

the individual is liable to make a payment of a lower amount; and

(ii)

the individual has already made a payment in excess of the amount to which the individual is liable,
the Lord Chancellor must repay to the individual the amount of such payment together with compound interest thereon from the date of the payment at the rate of 2% per year with yearly rests.

[des8]

Re: Capital Contribution Order and Transfer Property

I'm posting up as I go along & that was a comment lifted from another site but not repeated elsewhere.
I did draw attention to the regulations
I would, on reflection, consider writing to Rossers as per my first post, whilst you make your appeal.

Have you received a copy of the actual Capital Contribution Order?

Thanks so much for your advise,yes I think they can take what they want.but another question is there a limit to what they can charge?

If the capital is sufficient the charge will cover the costs of representation less any payments already made, so basically the limit is the cost.
CLA(CO) Regs 2013 sec 27 to 31