Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

[cul8rm8e]

If a lender was to take a standard security over a property of which they would provide a loan which would be in two stages.

The agreement is signed and the lender provides 1/3 of the loan amount to the borrower. Lets say the lender very shortly afterwards assigns that security (All done through the land registry) to a third party for the full amount of money he was obliged to provide the borrower under the contractual terms. If within the documents provided by the land registry it clearly states that the third Party holds a standard security over the property for the full amount of money that the original lender was contracted to lend (which included all interest+fees) and also with interest applied to the borrower of this full amount until repaid in full to the third party.

A couple more points i need to make

The borrower had no idea that this transfer had taken place until six months after the expiry date of the original loan contract with the original Lender after they sought information from the land registry.

The original lender never did provide the second stage of funding to the borrower (another issue)

Can anyone comment on what type of transfer this would need to be

thanks

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Hi,
A few questions first
1. You say the loan was to be in "2 stages" Can you explain this in more detail?
2. Did the third party assignee provide this" 2nd stage" loan.
3. What was the amount of the "1st stage" loan?.
Sparkie

[cul8rm8e]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Sorry

posted reply below

[cul8rm8e]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Hi,
A few questions first
1. You say the loan was to be in "2 stages" Can you explain this in more detail?
2. Did the third party assignee provide this" 2nd stage" loan.
3. What was the amount of the "1st stage" loan?.
Sparkie

Hi,

Yes the loan was to be in two stages. The first was for £10k to start work on the building of a property. the second stage of just over £20k was never provided due to lender pulling the plug (another issue not borrowers fault)

As far as the borrower was aware, he/she was dealing with the lender only and knew nothing about any assignment to the third party. the assignment of standard security was provided to the third party before the second stage funds were to be provided to the borrower from the original lender. We need to remember that the borrower would never have known anything about this assignment to the third party if he/she didnt feel something was wrong and got copies of all documents from The land registry (this itself was due to another separate issue where the contract was with a partnership company and the standard security was taken by a Limited company which is the original Lender i refer to. (Another issue is that the lender only held a licence to be a loan broker, they held no licence to lend money)

The loan was for £30k pluse fees of £8k in total at end of contract the lender was due £38k
After providing £10k to borrower the lender assigned standard security to the third party for £38k. Within the assignment this amount was then due by the borrower PLUS interest from that date. The borrower knew nothing about what the lender was up to.

It was also to be the case that the solicitor who was acting for the original lender, also acted for the original lender and the third party in the assignment from the original lender to the third party.

The reason for asking about the assignment is that, the lender refused to honor the original contract and refused to provide the second stage funds to the borrower. While trying to have the lender see sense the lenders solicitor continued to act on behalf of the lender and threaten legal action to recover the first stage funds the lender did provide, the solicitor has also added all legal costs to the amount that the lender is now seeking repossession for.


hope this helps

thanks

[Guest]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

The owner of the charge can assign it to a third party if they wish

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/9/section/23

(2)

Owner’s powers in relation to a registered charge consist of—

(a)

power to make a disposition of any kind permitted by the general law in relation to an interest of that description, other than a legal sub-mortgage, and

(b)

power to charge at law with the payment of money indebtedness secured by the registered charge

However the deed would have had to been correctly registered in the first place in order to be enforceable as a charge by way of mortgage, which means that the sums detailed under it would have to be correct and conform to the LRR 2013.

[cul8rm8e]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

The owner of the charge can assign it to a third party if they wish

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/9/section/23

(2)

Owner’s powers in relation to a registered charge consist of—

(a)

power to make a disposition of any kind permitted by the general law in relation to an interest of that description, other than a legal sub-mortgage, and

(b)

power to charge at law with the payment of money indebtedness secured by the registered charge

However the deed would have had to been correctly registered in the first place in order to be enforceable as a charge by way of mortgage, which means that the sums detailed under it would have to be correct and conform to the LRR 2013.

When you quoted "power to charge at law with the payment of money indebtedness secured by the registered charge" does that then not mean that they can only assign a charge to a third party for which the amount is owed to the lender at that time which was only 1/3 of what they assigned the charge to the third party for. Essentially the third party held a security for £38k against the borrower and at the same time the lender wante his £10k plus intrest back total £18k

hypothetically if the original lender tells the third party to run and jump for his money back, the third party has then the right to call up his loan from the standard security he holds does he not. Potentially it could be a right mess

[Guest]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

When you quoted "power to charge at law with the payment of money indebtedness secured by the registered charge" does that then not mean that they can only assign a charge to a third party for which the amount is owed to the lender at that time which was only 1/3 of what they assigned the charge to the third party for. Essentially the third party held a security for £38k against the borrower and at the same time the lender wante his £10k plus intrest back total £18k

hypothetically if the original lender tells the third party to run and jump for his money back, the third party has then the right to call up his loan from the standard security he holds does he not. Potentially it could be a right mess

I think that the initial charge would be the issue because it would not represent (correctly)the the sum repayable to redeem it. If this is not compliant then neither can any subsequent transfer be.

[Streetwise]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

If a lender was to take a standard security over a property of which they would provide a loan which would be in two stages.

The agreement is signed and the lender provides 1/3 of the loan amount to the borrower. Lets say the lender very shortly afterwards assigns that security (All done through the land registry) to a third party for the full amount of money he was obliged to provide the borrower under the contractual terms. If within the documents provided by the land registry it clearly states that the third Party holds a standard security over the property for the full amount of money that the original lender was contracted to lend (which included all interest+fees) and also with interest applied to the borrower of this full amount until repaid in full to the third party.

A couple more points i need to make

The borrower had no idea that this transfer had taken place until six months after the expiry date of the original loan contract with the original Lender after they sought information from the land registry.

The original lender never did provide the second stage of funding to the borrower (another issue)

Can anyone comment on what type of transfer this would need to be

thanks

Sorry are you saying that the title deed at the Land Registry,states that the charge is for £38K.
But you only got 10k.
How was the original 10k given to you ( Please don't say cash ).
Has the legal charge been properly executed .
Could you post up the page with the signatures on it.:beagle:

[cul8rm8e]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Yes the charge at the land registry is for £38k and Yes only £10k was provided by the original lender. the £10k was provided via solicitors but that solicitor has been let go after he made the statement that he doesnt know who is who in the contract (after the lender refused the second stage funds) and i should contact the FOS to complain. and yes those words did come from a solicitor

the charge was executed properly just as it was between the borrower and the original lender due to the lenders same solicitor acting for both the Lender and the Third party to execute the charge between them two. The solicitor merely says that she facilitated the charge on behalf of the third party and the original lender. I dont know if it makes any difference but the third party lives outside the UK. I thought it should have been at least the third party would have to get their own solicitor in their country.

What i am trying to ascertain is the type of assignment that was done between the original lender and the third party from outside the UK and was the solicitor legally able to continue acting for and threatening legal action for repayment of the first stage funds on behalf of the lender

I thought that atleast, If the lender assigned charge to a third party he could only assign the charge for the amount that was outstanding to the original lender. At the end of the day the lender provided £10k of his money and brought in £38k from a third party, in my eyes he is £28k up off the back of the borrowers property (in his pocket) and all at the same time pulled the plug on his obligations under the loan contract

[Streetwise]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Yes the charge at the land registry is for £38k and Yes only £10k was provided by the original lender. the £10k was provided via solicitors but that solicitor has been let go after he made the statement that he doesnt know who is who in the contract (after the lender refused the second stage funds) and i should contact the FOS to complain. and yes those words did come from a solicitor

the charge was executed properly just as it was between the borrower and the original lender due to the lenders same solicitor acting for both the Lender and the Third party to execute the charge between them two. The solicitor merely says that she facilitated the charge on behalf of the third party and the original lender. I dont know if it makes any difference but the third party lives outside the UK. I thought it should have been at least the third party would have to get their own solicitor in their country.

What i am trying to ascertain is the type of assignment that was done between the original lender and the third party from outside the UK and was the solicitor legally able to continue acting for and threatening legal action for repayment of the first stage funds on behalf of the lender

I thought that atleast, If the lender assigned charge to a third party he could only assign the charge for the amount that was outstanding to the original lender. At the end of the day the lender provided £10k of his money and brought in £38k from a third party, in my eyes he is £28k up off the back of the borrowers property (in his pocket) and all at the same time pulled the plug on his obligations under the loan contract

Who is trying to repossess, as well as contacting the F.O.S,think you should contact the S.R.A. and let them know what's going on.

[cul8rm8e]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Who is trying to repossess, as well as contacting the F.O.S,think you should contact the S.R.A. and let them know what's going on.

The original lender is pursuing the repossession for the £10k plus the full amount of interest and fees which was applied to the full amount of loan under the contract. This thread only covers a small part of the big picture.

What i am looking for is the type of transfer that took place, I believe that if the lender was able to do the transfer to the third party he should have only been allowed to transfer for the amount of loan that was outstanding to the original lender and not the full amount. I also believe that the lenders solicitor should not have facilitated the transaction or if that was legal to do the solicitor should have provided to the original lender (from the third party) the amount that he was owed at that time and withheld the rest to honor the contractual terms, i.e the release of the second stage funds £20k

[Streetwise]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

The original lender is pursuing the repossession for the £10k plus the full amount of interest and fees which was applied to the full amount of loan under the contract. This thread only covers a small part of the big picture.

What i am looking for is the type of transfer that took place, I believe that if the lender was able to do the transfer to the third party he should have only been allowed to transfer for the amount of loan that was outstanding to the original lender and not the full amount. I also believe that the lenders solicitor should not have facilitated the transaction or if that was legal to do the solicitor should have provided to the original lender (from the third party) the amount that he was owed at that time and withheld the rest to honor the contractual terms, i.e the release of the second stage funds £20k

How can the original lender repossess if he has signed over the Legal charge to a third party what grounds would they have,please don't tell us half a story.

[Guest]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Yes I m a bit mystified myself TBH

Whilst a deed can be executed without any consideration, the value of the loan will be that which is secured by the charge. The amount was apparently 10k.

The charge cannot be sold for anything more than this, because this is all that it is worth. In other words this is all that is redeemable under the deed(via the charge).

If the original charge and deed were executed to reflect a consideration of 38 k and only 10k was issued then this is the point where the OP should question its validity IMO.

[cul8rm8e]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

Streetwise.

The main reason for my post is concerning the undertaking of the lenders solicitor. I am not trying to tell half a story, only what i felt that needs to be mentioned to keep all comments relating only to what i would like to know. Currently there is a complaint in against the lenders solicitor and have all intentions to go to SRA

To clarify things, the lender did in fact assign the security for £38k while at the time only provided £10k to the borrower, this happened only a few weeks after the first stage was released to the borrow and unknown to him/her. This information is from land registry and cannot be disputed.

[cul8rm8e]

Re: Secured Loan Assignment Helpl please

andy58

The charge was taken by the lender for £38k from the outset and within the contract it stated it would be provided in two stages. the first stage was released £10k the lender registered the charge the next day for £38k ( documentation from land registry)

The lender a few weeks later assigned the charge to an inidvidual outside the UK for £38k and from my understanding, this amount plus interest from that date was due by the borrower. My understanding is that this was a legal assignment (this is what i am trying to ascertain) and the third party should have been dealing directly with the borrower to provide the second stage release, not the lender.

The original charge was executed to reflect a consideration of £38k and Yes £10k was the only amount provided

To get to the point why the original lender is pursuing for repossession. The lender went back and purchased back the charge from the third party outside the UK for the exact same amount £38k. this was done a month after the expiry date of the original contract between the lender and the borrower. As I understand he had to do this so that he could provide the borrower with the calling up notice for the £10k plus fees even though he was the one that breached the contract.

As i mentioned earlier, I had no intention to provide half a story, all i wanted to do was keep the post simple and hopefully an answer to the issue with the type of transfer that took place for the only reason that the lenders solicitor made many threats of increase in monies due (to the original lender), to repossess (on behalf of the original lender)and also while all the time the original lender did not hold the security.

I simply want to understand who was in control and who was liable to produde the second stage funds after the transfer from the lender to the other guy took place.