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Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

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  • Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

    Hi All,

    I am new to the forum and was after some advise on a matter that I have landed into: I really apologise about the length of the post and I appreciate your time.


    On the 23/05/13 I received two letters, one from DVLA being a Requisition to attend a hearing at a Magistrates in Swansea on 15/05/13 which meant that I missed the hearing, same format as all other Requisition letters seen on this forum but mine mentions Offence (That was the registered keeper on 08/11/2012. The vehicle did not meet the statutory insurance requirements contrary to Section 22 of the Road Safety Act 2006)

    The car was not insured at the time and was on my name, it was Taxed and in private property however not insured, I was not aware that it is illegal to have a car Taxed but not insured whilst in private property, and if one needed to do so in the future a SORN would have to be made. This could be to my own disadvantages but you get so carried away with life due to busyness and other that you only learn and deal with things as they happen.

    The problem in my case is that I received the Requisition letter late, and did not receive the penalty notice from DVLA or any other correspondence before that at all, which still puzzles me to this day. This could be for a number of reasons beyond my control i.e. missing post by Royal Mail, post box could have been picked downstairs as I live in a flat and box is easy to open, DVLA never sent the letters or any other possibilities.

    I am a law abiding citizen, clean record on everything and would never have ignored such matter intentionally and to be honest since the 23r of May I have had nothing but stress from this as its making me look like an idiot.

    I called DVLA and they advised me that they sent me a warning letter back in October 2012, the penalty on 08/11/12 as mentioned above to pay £100 or £50 if paid within 21 days or so and another penalty final notice to pay £100 sometime in November 2012.

    I have not received any of these and to be honest I have not had any major Post issues at my address before and this is a first time incident. Anyhow I attended a Requisition hearing, explained my circumstances and it was approved at a Magistrates in Richmond (Middlesex), after that DVLA started proceedings again and sent me a new Penalty Notice to pay £100 or £50 if within 21 days or so.

    I was going to pay and get over and done with as it was not worth the hustle as this has taken way too much time from me already but I am very annoyed with the fact that I never received any of the previous correspondence that could of helped me prevent this matter from occurring in the first place and feel as if I am being blackmailed to pay them money.

    I have asked for proof from DVLA that they have sent all previous communication but they do not seem to record any of their deliveries at all, which is disappointing as it would have helped me with my case.

    I sent a letter back stating that I won’t be paying the new penalty and look forward to seeing them in court as I will be defending myself on the matter. Today I received a letter that they will be prosecuting me in Court and they are making arrangements to do so.

    I am happy to defend myself, I have no evidence apart from honesty and articles I found online that refer to DVLA having history for loosing mail.

    Could you please offer your honest opinion or some advice if possible on the matter.

    I am going to be outside the country from 15th to 26th of July and I have explaiend this to DVLA. I am afraid that they might arrange a hearing whilst I am away and wont be present to defend my self and land my self in more trouble. My penalty notice mentions that I have until the 14th of July to pay the 50% otherwise it will increase to £100.

    Could I still pay the £50 or is that not an option after an appeal and then deal with the matter afterwards or not?

    Thanks again for reading

    Any comments are welcomed

    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

    Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

    When you went to the Requisition Hearing, what order did the court actually make, please?
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

      Hi bluebottle

      I had to attend Requsition for missing first hearing, they approved once I exlained the situation and was advised by clerk that its up to the DVLA to decide on what action to take next, she advised that if they still want to take action against you, they will need to start proceedings from the beggining, hence why they sent me a new Penalty Notice.

      Hope that helps

      Thank you

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

        Originally posted by isokoli View Post
        Hi bluebottle

        I had to attend Requsition for missing first hearing, they approved once I exlained the situation and was advised by clerk that its up to the DVLA to decide on what action to take next, she advised that if they still want to take action against you, they will need to start proceedings from the beggining, hence why they sent me a new Penalty Notice.

        Hope that helps

        Thank you
        If DVLA were to attempt to hold a hearing, knowing you were out of the country, then it could be argued that that amounts to Perverting the Course of Justice and also a breach of Article 6, Human Rights Act (Right to A Fair Hearing).

        If you are planning to appeal, on what grounds would you be appealing?
        Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

          That makes perfect sense, thanks.

          My only grounds are that I never received the letters i.e. If I had received the warning letter I would of declared the car as SORN and sorted the problem before it led to anything else. I have no actual evidence as DVLA send none of that correspondence recorded considering what this matter is regarding, I believe they should the least send one of the crucial letters this way so that if things escalate to such level, one will be able to pinpoint the cause of the problem. I have taken pictures of the Mail Boxes as one or two are damaged from people messing with post, that is all I have provided to DVLA, I have also advised them that I have not received any previous correspondence leading to the Requisition letter on the 23/05/13 and also stated after doing some research that they are known for loosing mail.

          Please find attached the letter I sent DVLA after the new Penalty Notice below.

          Thanks again


          Originally posted by bluebottle View Post
          If DVLA were to attempt to hold a hearing, knowing you were out of the country, then it could be argued that that amounts to Perverting the Course of Justice and also a breach of Article 6, Human Rights Act (Right to A Fair Hearing).

          If you are planning to appeal, on what grounds would you be appealing?
          Attached Files
          Last edited by isokoli; 2nd July 2013, 11:32:AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

            Dont think the argument about not receiving letters wears very well the DVLA must send millions of letters out so if they say it was sent i think a court would accept that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

              Good point but if I have not received anything why should I have to pay and suffer as a consequence, millions of letters are sent on a daily basis, and Royal Mail does not offer 100% delivery guarantee instead 99% as it is impossible to do so, that 1% can cause problems? To save myself the trouble I would rather pay the £50 now and sort it but this is not justice and fair at all.

              I believe I still have the option to pay the £50 even after I made the appeal, although I would need to clarify

              Thank you

              Originally posted by wales01man View Post
              Dont think the argument about not receiving letters wears very well the DVLA must send millions of letters out so if they say it was sent i think a court would accept that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                Originally posted by isokoli View Post
                Good point but if I have not received anything why should I have to pay and suffer as a consequence, millions of letters are sent on a daily basis, and Royal Mail does not offer 100% delivery guarantee instead 99% as it is impossible to do so, that 1% can cause problems? To save myself the trouble I would rather pay the £50 now and sort it but this is not justice and fair at all.

                I believe I still have the option to pay the £50 even after I made the appeal, although I would need to clarify

                Thank you
                Which makes it 99% probable that it was sent/received correctly.
                & a civil court works on the 'balance of probability'
                CAVEAT LECTOR

                This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                Cohen, Herb


                There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                gets his brain a-going.
                Phelps, C. C.


                "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                The last words of John Sedgwick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                  At odds of 99 to 1 even i would pay unless i was innocent of the offence?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                    Wales01Man,

                    I wouldn't be on this forum if I wasn't innocent, and would never have let such matter escelate to where it has if I wasn't, as I was given the ability to pay £50 instead of fine by court of law of £310. I am after opinions and I respect them all, based on these I will decide what decision to take.

                    Thank you

                    Originally posted by wales01man View Post
                    At odds of 99 to 1 even i would pay unless i was innocent of the offence?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                      i was never saying you were not innocent i stated if i was innocent,your decision is to pay or to fight but with the post at 99% alleged delivery and based on the balance of probability the court uses that defence might get throw out.Your decision on how to proceed good luck if you fight it

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                        DVLA are trying to route this through the Criminal Justice system, so the onus probandi is "beyond all reasonable doubt". I would not be surprised if DVLA had not sent the letters. It is all very well them insisting they were sent, but can they prove they were sent? It is very easy to put something on a computer system, but then you have to prove a letter has been physically sent. Without actual proof this has been done, it would, IMHO, introduce reasonable doubt.

                        As far as insuring a motor vehicle is concerned, if a vehicle has been SORNed, it does not require to be insured. If, on the other hand, it has not beem SORNed, it is required to be insured, even if it is not used on a public road. This law seems to be nothing more than a revenue-raising exercise for the motor insurance industry and DVLA. As to whether it is lawful, it is only lawful if the courts rule it to be. Until such time as that happens, DVLA are operating this questionable legislation by the seat of their pants.
                        Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                          bluebottle


                          Thanks for info, I did mention this to DVLA that marking them on a system is not the same as phycially putting the letter on an envelope and sending it off as that responsibility I am sure lies on someone else.

                          This is just a load of crap, their appeal process is so complicated and slow for a reason so that people just give in to pay as it will cost them more money and time to follow up.

                          Anyway I think I know what has to be done now

                          Thank mate
                          Last edited by isokoli; 3rd July 2013, 07:49:AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                            Hi All,

                            I unfortunately decided to pay the £50 and the DVLA representative closed the case yesterday, as I am going to be outside of the country for two weeks on the 15th. I just do not need the worry and the hustle and to be perfectly honest, tired of it all, it has been going on for over a month now and it has been nothing but stress, this government and its subsidies are just becoming money grabbing thieves forcing the honest public into paying hard earned money for nothing or simple mistakes. The time has come to pay for anything you do wrong or fall a victim off unless u are 100% perfect, that I am sure does not exist, you will fall victim of these scams sooner or later but it does help to know your rights as their threats can make you pay up due to fear and other factors. This is the manipulation of democracy where your freedom is stripped away slowly, and eventually you will have no freedom at all. The main fear is to pay up more as the matter escalates therefore no option but to retreat and pay original sum unless you have all the time in the world to deal with such matters NEVER PAY UP, FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT.

                            The sad thing is that these people who make such decisions for these entities are people just like you and me, who act cold as if they are robots, hence why you hear all sorts of things on the news now days, cold hearted b*stards.

                            Thanks for all your time whether you offered your opinion, advice or just read the post.

                            (IF YOU DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD AND DO NOT ASK QUESTIONS OR MAKE ANY OBJECTIONS, YOU WILL BE THE ONE WHO PAYS THE PRICE WHEN SOMETHING GOES WRONG. OPEN YOUR EYES AND REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE HUMAN AND UNIQUE AND NOT A PROGRAMMED MACHINE “IS”).
                            Last edited by isokoli; 3rd July 2013, 08:03:AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Failure to Insure Penalty *COMPLICATED*

                              Hi all, im in a similar situation, I've been called to a hearing at the magistrates court, and they want a £1000 penalty, I also didn't receive any warning of this, how do I go about explaining this to them? do I ring them or go to the hearing and explain there? HELP!? I've never been in any situation like this, and im stressing out and worried

                              Comment

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