Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

[sairlp]

Hi
firstly not sure if this thread is in correct area!
Since I have had some invaluable advice on here for another matter, I thought I would seek advice about something that I have been meaning to look into for a long time...have never seemed to have enough energy to do so before. All slightly complex but here goes!
After several years of severe financial difficulties, and struggling to meet our mortgage payments ( ridiculously high interst with Rooftop ) . Against our will we decided to sell our home, which had been my husbands home all his life, before it ended up being repossessed, which was going to be the next step.
We sold in 2007, and after paying off mortgage and other debts, we're left with a little bit of money. We went into rented accommodation, let through an estate agent, we had signed a years lease initially. This was in the April, on returning from our holiday in August, we received a letter saying that we had a month notice to leave. The reason being that the Estate Agents said that the landlord was not aware that I was a childminder, and that he was not happy to have young children in his property. The Estate agents were certainly aware what my job was as it was my initial question to them, would it be a problem....it was also down on all paperwork we filled in. Anyhow we were so shocked / distressed etc, still hadn't got over loss of our own home, that we put up very little in the way of a fight. The only property that came up was for a 6 week lease, but we had no choice bit to take this. We then found a property that we were in for 3 years until the landlord sold.
We moved 3 times in a space of 6 months, which really took its toll, if you have followed my previous thread you will see that my husband suffers from depression, this episode in our lives understandably triggered his first episode.
Each move cost us a few thousand pounds, what with advance deposits and rent, days off work, administration fees, inventory fees etc etc the cost seemed endless.
i think my point is......would I have a case that if the Estate Agent had informed the landlord of my job then none of this would have occurred, it seriously caused us endless emotional and financial crisis' and still takes up my thoughts and worries at times.
i am concerned about taking action against Estate Agent as unfortunately they deal with the house we are in now and have been for 2 years.
hope someone can make sense of the above
thanks in advance!

[PlanB]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

We sold in 2007, and after paying off mortgage and other debts, we're left with a little bit of money. We went into rented accommodation, let through an estate agent, we had signed a years lease initially. This was in the April, on returning from our holiday in August, we received a letter saying that we had a month notice to leave. The reason being that the Estate Agents said that the landlord was not aware that I was a childminder . . .

i think my point is......would I have a case that if the Estate Agent had informed the landlord of my job then none of this would have occurred, it seriously caused us endless emotional and financial crisis' and still takes up my thoughts and worries at times.
i am concerned about taking action against Estate Agent as unfortunately they deal with the house we are in now and have been for 2 years.

If you were on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement (which it seems you were for the first 12 months) once the initial fixed period ends you become a statutory periodic tenant which means the Landlord has to give you two months' notice not one under section 21 of the Landlord & Tenant Act. Your agent should have known this. If your Landlord got that wrong then your notice to quit was invalid and you may be able to explore a claim using that as an argument.

Is the agent a member of the property ombudsman scheme (I think it's compulsory now but may not have been then) in which case you could start with a formal complaint to the agent about your unlawful notice to quit and then progress it to the TPOS.

There's more info here: http://www.tpos.co.uk/make_complaint_rents.htm

In theory you're out of time to do this but since you've only just discovered you were unlawfully 'evicted' then you should be ok. It's always good to get an Ombudsman ruling in your favour before going to court because it will add weight to your claim

I expect the agent didn't tell the Landlord about your business activity because he wanted the deal done. But I'm just a bit cynical about estate agents. Or he may have deliberately concealed it because most Buy-To-Let mortgages contain a clause which stipulates that no business activities can be carried out on the premises and providing a childminding service could be considered a business placing the Landlord at risk of breaching his lender's Ts & Cs.

Going to ourt can be stressful but the Ombudsman is more informal and they can award compensation but it's unlikely to be thousands of pounds

[MissFM]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

http://www.estateagentreview.co.uk/a...o-complain.php Might also be useful.

"We went into rented accommodation, let through an estate agent, we had signed a years lease initially. This was in the April, on returning from our holiday in August, we received a letter saying that we had a month notice to leave. The reason being that the Estate Agents said that the landlord was not aware that I was a childminder, and that he was not happy to have young children in his property. The Estate agents were certainly aware what my job was as it was my initial question to them, would it be a problem....it was also down on all paperwork we filled in."

If you signed a Lease for a year and were given one month's notice after 4 months despite complete transparency on your part that doesn't sound at all right. If you are worried that a complaint might have a negative impact on your present situation it might be worth a phone call to the OS (or one of the bodies listed in the link above) for advice; sometimes they offer to inform the business that you will be making a formal complaint (starting the 8 weeks they have to sort it) and this could give you some degree of protection from any bullying that might arise. You also need advice on the best route to follow given that this happened outside the normal timescale for complaints procedures.

Good luck!

[PlanB]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

Golly I didn't realize (my mistake) that the Landlord gave you notice during the fixed period which makes this event even worse. A Landlord can only serve Notice under section 8 during a fixed period if you've breached the terms of your tenancy agreement such as rent arrears etc. But he still has to take you to court to get possession of the property first, and if he didn't do that then you were 'evicted' unlawfully for which there could be repercussions.

Here's a little background to your legal rights:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ld_tenancies#2


Do you still have a copy of your AST or can you get it from the agent because everything will hinge on that contract which will state exactly what you agreed to do and more importantly what you agreed not to do. Some tenancy agreements specify that you won't carry out any business activity on the premises and if you signed to that effect then your Landlord may have had the legal right to repossess you, but he still had to do this through the county court which takes months and DJs have immense discretion to refuse a Landlord's claim for possession if it's not deemed to be reasonable (except in the case of rent arrears).

I'm not a lawyer but I am a Landlord and I think your quarrel is with the Landlord and not the agent. Find out if the Landlord could be sued for unlawful 'eviction' and if you go ahead he'll have to claim his loss (your claim for damages) from the agent who may have been professionally negligent for not giving the Landlord the appropriate information.

Ring the Shelter's free helpline in that link above. If you pursue the Landlord you won't be causing any tension between you and the agent which is a bonus

One more thing is keep an eye on the clock because you only have six years to do this from the time it happened (2007) and that will expire this August if I've got my maths right :clock:

[PlanB]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

. . . on returning from our holiday in August, we received a letter saying that we had a month notice to leave. The reason being that the Estate Agents said that the landlord was not aware that I was a childminder, and that he was not happy to have young children in his property. The Estate agents were certainly aware what my job was as it was my initial question to them, would it be a problem....it was also down on all paperwork we filled in.

Something else occurs to me. Did your tenancy agreement have a clause which specifically said "no children or pets" which is often the case? If not then I don't see how the Landlord would have any legal right to get rid of you for that reason. Whether you were a childminder or not would make no difference since you could easily have your own children messing up the place (unless the contract says you can't) so what would be the difference :noidea: Children are children whether home grown or paying to be there they all make the same mess :baby: Anyway that's what deposits are for to cover the cost of any damage when you leave.

[sairlp]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

Thanks to both of you, have given me confidence to pursue this, I feel I must at least try! I'm so annoyed with myself that I didn't do anything at the time, but just didn't have the mental energy or wherewithal
Am trawling through all my old paperwork in search for all relevant bits, the lease did say about not running a business from home, but this has been on all my tenancy agreements since, and the Agents have always said childminding is fine and " not the type of business" they mean. We questioned this immediately with the letting agent and they said not a problem, it was also obviously on paperwork that has our employment and earning details etc.
i have a distant memory that at the time when we questioned us being asked to leave the house, that the agents said they themselves were not aware of my job, this was utter nonsense as when the property manager used to visit, she used to enquire about the children I minded. I would have to check correspondence on that though.
the tenancy agreement didn't stipulate no children, we have 3 children of our own ( admittedly the youngest was them10)
My gut feeling is that the Letting Agency were in error by not informing the landlord of my job, I believe the landlord heard about my job in passing as he still kept in touch with the neighbours, and I think when he brought this up with the agency, they back peddled...
Speaking of deposits, we were robbed from just 4 months in there, the kitchen / diner and lounge had wood flooring ( not laminate). When we left there were scuff marks from chairs being moved in and out of table. The landlord ( who the letting agent said was a bit anal) said that his only option was to replace the entire downstairs flooring, massively excessive I believe and we had to pay a large % of this....again another issue I wish we had disputed

Anyhow, thanks so much for advice so far
:-)

[MissFM]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

Depends whether it's a bona fide Estate Agent or a Lettings Agent. EA's do now need to conform to increasingly rigorous standards, must have professional qualifications and must be regulated by professional bodies (see above). As far as I know "Lettings Agents" are required to have diddly squat (please correct me if I'm wrong on this!). If a professional EA business, the agent will have insurance that should cover professional negligence and other claims. The LL may not have the equivalent.

If the OP does decide to claim for damages/compensation etc - and this will be stressful win or lose - it would be helpful to have a professional regulatory body to underline the fact that the agent did not act within professional guidelines and to "hold her hand".

Another possibility -let's call it "Plan C" - might be to contact the landlord and team up with him/her to call the agent to account. The behaviour of the agents as described above is unprofessional in the extreme and the LL will no doubt be aware that he has been to the expense of acquiring a dog yet has had to bark himself.

Only you, Sairlp, know whether this is a possibility as it depends on the kind of person you are dealing with.

To state the obvious - work out exactly what you want to achieve, how much stress you are realistically prepared to go through to achieve it and the most likely route, based purely on pragmatism, to get you there.

Although Shelter is a fantastic resource they are very much geared to helping people in very extreme situations (actual or impending homelessness). As your claim will be retrospective we will have to find additional resources for you!

Er - PlanB - why 2007?:confused2:

[MissFM]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

Sorry just re-read and spotted the 2007!

[PlanB]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

If 2007 was the date when the OP was unlawfully kicked out of her home then I presumed the statute of limitation for bringing the claim would be six years from the 'cause of action'. But I could be wrong

I fear if the tenancy agreement said the OP couldn't run a business from home then that may frustrate any claim against the Landlord if she breached the contract However it doesn't alter the fact that he didn't go through the right legal procedures for taking possession even if the 'eviction' was sadly inevitable. Distress was caused to the OP (which could carry a price tag) but she would have incurred the cost of removals vans etc anyway albeit at a later date once the Landlord had followed the correct legal procedure.

From what's been said the agent probably did "back peddle" when challenged by the Landlord - isn't that the same thing as blatantly lying :lie: If the agent was so sure the Landlord was happy to have a business on the premises then why didn't he take that clause out of the contract in the first place :doh: The secret of success with any claim for damages is to aim at the right target and this is beginning to look increasingly like the letting agent

[PlanB]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

Sairlp, did you sign any contract or Ts & Cs with the letting agent at the time? If you paid them a fee for finding you a property then the contract would be implied anyway wouldn't it :grin: If so then the agent had a duty of care to you too not just the Landlord. You would both have been clients :nod: :nod:

I always think when it comes to suing you should go for the person with the deepest pockets. As Miss FM has pointed out the letting agent would probably have PI insurance which would pay out in the event of a successful claim (or threat of one!) which may be more successful than getting a CCJ against a Landlord who refuses to pay up and enforcement only prolongs the agony for you.

Dig out all your paperwork and do some research on all the points we've raised and see where this is going. It seems to me your claim may be limited to any loss you suffered by moving out 8 months earlier than your initial AST, because the Landlord always did have the right to get rid of you at the end of that fixed period. Sadly tenants have no security of tenure after the contract expires. You can't claim you would have been able to stay there for years unless that was in writing which I doubt.

Good Luck with your research :hug:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

Sairlp, did you sign any contract or Ts & Cs with the letting agent at the time? If you paid them a fee for finding you a property then the contract would be implied anyway wouldn't it :grin: If so then the agent had a duty of care to you too not just the Landlord. You would both have been clients :nod: :nod:

As a matter of interest, it's customary for agents to charge a non-refundable 'admin fee' or 'referencing fee' to the tenant, would you consider that "a fee for finding you a property" for this purpose?

[MissFM]

Re: Problems with Estate Agents and rented property

The more I think about this, the more the time lapse seems to be the biggest problem.

Like Sairlp, I can see cogent arguments for consequential losses that go way beyond the inconvenience of being unlawfully evicted 8 months early but - whether it's worth the OP spending more time, energy and money on what may be just too far in the past? Which is why it could well be a sensible option to ask the relevant professional bodies/OS for help and advice. Obviously, consulting a solicitor who specializes in this field would be worthwhile (if costly) and might provide a definitive answer.