Plumber wanting £180 call-out fee despite no work required and attempts to cancel.

[davoid23]

Hello all,

I haven't posted in years, but you were really helpful before, so here I am crawling back! Apologies if this isn't in the right place, but I couldn't see any similar threads anywhere.

----------------

My sister called an emergency Plumber last night, a national company who sub-contract to local plumbers.

The agreed time was 0830HRS this morning and £180 call-out fee. In the meantime, I've been able to attend and fix the issue (a blocked toilet.)

She tried to call the company at 0820HRS to cancel, but got a pre-recorded "this number is busy".

The plumber only arrived between 0855-0900HRS, just as I was finishing up.

When turned away, I tried to discuss the issue with them (Plumber present and a chap called "Eddy" on the phone) and paid £10 cash to Plumber for his fuel and time, which I felt was reasonable. He said to expect a letter taking her to small claims court for the rest. (He then jumped in his car wearing no seatbelt, sped and drove without due care - But I digress...)

I managed to flag him down on his way back past and recorded a very civil conversation (with his knowledge and consent) which boiled down to:
The local plumber gets half of any fee (so £90.)
The job would be £180 per hour, despite no work to be done.
The call-out charge is £180 whether he is there for an hour, or for 20secs.
He was told the job was booked for 0830HRS but agreed that he didn't make 0830HRS because of "traffic" (first thing on a Saturday morning...)
Was asked by the company to make it for 0900HRS, but HE asked THEM if he could attend 0830HRS, to fit in more jobs.
I asked "Does that seem reasonable; £180 to turn up and do nothing?"
He said "Not at all, mate, but you've rang 'em and agreed the fees."
He accepts that I've paid the £10 for his time, but doesn't feel it's enough.
He then explained the national company will charge him half the fee, as he has essentially failed to collect it.
I asked him to have the manager call back, so I could discuss a more reasonable fee (I'd expect a call-out turned away to be MAX of £50.)
I appreciate my sister agreed to £180 fee in the stressful situation she was in, but again, I feel that is SO steep as just a call-out.

What should I be expecting here, please? In my opinion, I don't feel a small claims court would entertain £180 for a plumber to arrive late and be turned away at the doorstep, with us having already called to cancel having fixed the issue in their absence/lateness, but am I wrong? My sister doesn't have £180 to spare, let alone court fees etc (hence why I had my hand up the u-bend at 8:30 in the morning!)

Also, presumably we can still fall back on paying an invoice (for £170 given £10 cash was paid) before any fees are added/court involved?

Thanks for your help.

[echat11]

It was booked through the National company, write a formal complaint, get the complaint in.
State that the engineer didn't arrive at the designated time, but has been compensated for his fuel.

The number wasn't maned by anybody, so you could find out why he hadn't turned up at the agreed time.
As you didn't know what was going on you managed to fix the plumbing issue.

What the Consumer Rights Act 2015 states is that the service needs to be carried out with reasonable care and skill.
He did not attend at the agreed time, so the National company is in 'breach of the contract'.

So from what you say, you've nothing to worry about, but I'd lodge the complaint make your position clear.
Email and send the letter Recorded Delivery.

Amend and send the following:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...-of-a-service/

Even if they were entitled to the £180 due under the contract, because it's been cancelled, they would only
be entitled to recover their 'reasonable' costs / losses, as you correctly state £180 is 'unfair'.

You've done more then what most people would do, very reasonable.

If a LBA or Court claim (unlikely) materialise then update the thread.

[Pezza54]

In the terms and conditions of a national emergency plumber that I read, the customer pays over the phone at the time of the booking
If the customer cancels the appointment before the company arranges a plumber, the customer is entitled to 50% refund, otherwise no refund at all
The company has referred to the legislation (the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) 2013 regarding emergency services

[davoid23]

Thank you both for the quick responses. It's certainly put my sister's mind a little more at ease, which I really appreciate.

The timing is slightly different to what I was originally told, but I can't see it'd make a difference. In essence, at 10pm, she originally agreed to 9am the next day. The company then called her the next morning at 8am to move it to 8:30am. The same would still apply, right, that ultimately the agreed time wasn't met?

If that's the case, would this suffice, please:

-------------------------------------

Consumer Rights Act 2015

To whom it may concern,

I recently agreed in a telephone call to you, at approximately 10pm on 25/04/2025, that a Plumber would attend my address by 9am the next morning, 26/04/25.

At 8am 26/04/25, you called to move the appointment to 8:30am. I agreed the change that you requested and expected the Plumber to arrive by 8:30am. When they did not, we resolved the matter by alternative means. When your Plumber arrived at shortly after 8:55am, we paid £10 cash directly to him to compensate his fuel and travel, which he accepted.

We tried to make a courtesy call to you to advise we no longer required your services before he arrived, but our calls were not answered and no call back was recieved. At the time of writing we have still recieved no communication following this.

According to the law named above, I am entitled to have this work done for a reasonable charge and in a reasonable/agreed time. The attending person was late and the requested payment of £180 to complete no work is clearly unfair/unreasonable.

As you have not met your obligations under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I am filing this formal complaint to request the matter be closed.

Please acknowledge my complaint within the next 14 days. If you fail to respond in this time, I will have no option but to consider the matter closed, at a total cost of £10.

Yours faithfully,
------------------------

EChat11 - Thank you for the template, I had to deviate slightly, but hopefully the above is in that spirit of it.

Pezza54 - Fortunately no money or payment details were exchanged at the point of booking, but I agree even that would be more reasonable than this. I've advised her that if she wants to avoid any of this more formal complaint process (and the associated hassle and worry etc), to request a final invoice for £40 (£50, less £10 already paid) and we will pay that, as I understand the costs to attend etc and don't want to be unreasonable myself.

Thankss again, both.

[echat11]

I would amend the following, your trying to assert your rights, but then leaving yourself open i.e. why don't you charge me etc.

The attending person was late and the requested £180, the work no longer to needed completed as he arrived well after the time agreed. In any case the £180 is clearly 'unfair' under the circumstance.

Please acknowledge my complaint within the next 14 days. If you fail to respond in this time, I will consider this matter closed.

[PallasAthena]

So the £180 was the callout fee + up to one hours work?

I'm afraid I don't share the view that this is, in the legal sense, clearly an unreasonable contract term.

It's a pretty typical emergency plumber charge round my way, albeit somewhat higher than average.

In any event the price of a service under a consumer contract is generally excluded from the 'unfair contract terms' provisions in CRA 2015 as long as the price is clear and transparent in the contract. It's not an unfair contract term just because it's a bad bargain or could have been bought cheaper elsewhere

Nor is it self evident that being paid even if no work is needed is automatically unreasonable. The plumber could credibly argue that by being booked out for one hour with you they have lost the opportunity to earn money elsewhere. After all, the reason there was no work for the plumber to do was because your sister, after contracting with the plumber, then bought in someone cheaper to do the work (you) without first cancelling the original.contract.

Do the T&C on the call out company website say anything about arrival times? I wouldn't be surprised if they have something about them being approximate.

Does their website what time their booking phone line opens?

[Pezza54]

Unfortunately under 28(1)(e) of Part 3 Right to Cancel of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013, Part 3 does not apply when a consumer has asked a trader to carry out urgent repairs.

I agree with Pallasathena.

If the company threatens legal action and you are unable to agree a reduced sum, in my opinion you should pay the £180 to avoid a court claim.

If you decide to defend the claim and your defence is struck out before the claim is allocated to a track, you may be ordered by the court to pay the claimant's legal costs

[echat11]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ds-or-services

[davoid23]

Thanks Pezza54/Pallasathena - Always happy to hear a different opinion/option. From your perspectives, presumably we can still fall back on paying an invoice (for £170 given £10 cash was paid) before any fees are added/court involved?

Pallasathena - He said "It's £180 whether I'm here for an hour or for 20 seconds" so however they choose to break that down (presumably £120 + £60ph.) In terms of being booked elsewhere, I think they actually brought our appointment forward to 8:30 in order to try and "squeeze us in" (knowing a blocked toilet wouldn't take long to fix) as he said he had another appointment to get to (presumably to also be late to his 9am booking!) So I'm not too worried when it comes to them proviing "lost earnings", because they can't have lost much. In terms of approximate times, I can't see anything on the website about that, but arranging to be there in 30mins, then missing that by 30mins - I feel like if they'd left it as a 9am booking, I'd have no case whatsoever, so they've opened themselves up by moving it. I also feel that calling us at 8am, then not answering the phone afterwards (or since) is a little unfair, as we physically cannot cancel if they don't. (Just my perspective on your comments, not arguing with you at all - I appreciate your thoughts.)

ECHAT11 - Any idea how long would be considered reasonable to assume they aren't proceeding? I wonder if we could send our letter in response to them pursuing for the full amount, rather than preemptively; but then that got me to wondering when should we feel we are "in the clear" and can put it behind us.

[des8]

An emergency call out charge is (I understand) is legally enforceable.
Besides the points already raised in this thread I wonder if the charge in this case would be enforceable as it has hardly been rated as an emergency.
The call was made at 10.00pm, but the appointment was made for some 10 hours later.

I personally would just wait to see what turns up, and if necessary fight it from then on.

[PallasAthena]

If it went to court an issue you would need to overcome if you argue based on reasonable cancellation charges is that your sister did not in fact communicate any cancellation to the national booking company prior to the contract work having started. ie, when the plumber was already on her doorstep , tools in hand, ready to start work.

I doubt whether a single phone call which did not connect because the line was busy would be accepted by a court as a valid cancellation, although you can never tell with small claims courts. Can be a bit of a judge lottery.

[echat11]

Thanks Pezza54/Pallasathena - Always happy to hear a different opinion/option. From your perspectives, presumably we can still fall back on paying an invoice (for £170 given £10 cash was paid) before any fees are added/court involved?

Pallasathena - He said "It's £180 whether I'm here for an hour or for 20 seconds" so however they choose to break that down (presumably £120 + £60ph.) In terms of being booked elsewhere, I think they actually brought our appointment forward to 8:30 in order to try and "squeeze us in" (knowing a blocked toilet wouldn't take long to fix) as he said he had another appointment to get to (presumably to also be late to his 9am booking!) So I'm not too worried when it comes to them proviing "lost earnings", because they can't have lost much. In terms of approximate times, I can't see anything on the website about that, but arranging to be there in 30mins, then missing that by 30mins - I feel like if they'd left it as a 9am booking, I'd have no case whatsoever, so they've opened themselves up by moving it. I also feel that calling us at 8am, then not answering the phone afterwards (or since) is a little unfair, as we physically cannot cancel if they don't. (Just my perspective on your comments, not arguing with you at all - I appreciate your thoughts.)

ECHAT11 - Any idea how long would be considered reasonable to assume they aren't proceeding? I wonder if we could send our letter in response to them pursuing for the full amount, rather than preemptively; but then that got me to wondering when should we feel we are "in the clear" and can put it behind us.

They would have to send a Letter Before Action, that's CPR Protocols they have to follow (highlighting why the monies is owed, how much is owed and how you can rectify the alleged breach).

So before you receive a Court claim through the post you should receive an LBA. They probably have a template that is printed off, so all in house.
If they send a LBA you can respond to it, your main Defence is that a call booked at 10.00pm and the plumber arriving at 8.30, instead of the original time which was booked for 9.00am, this just isn't an 'emergency call out'.

An 'emergency call - out' refers to situations that require immediate attention to prevent potential harm or significant damage to property.
Regardless of what the National Company or plumber says, they would have a tough time proving this was booked as an 'emergency call - out'.




.

[Pezza54]

When OP's sister phoned the company in the evening, the company rep would have asked about the plumbing emergency and whether the customer could wait until the next day for a plumber to visit.
The sister must have agreed (verbally) that 8.30am visit the next day and a call out charge of £180 was okay. She was probably warned how the costs of an emergency call out could mount up
She should have been told about her rights to cancel the appointment under the contract and it would be normal for the company to send the customer an email or text confirming the appointment and the terms and conditions of the agreement

Did the £180 charge include any labour, if not what was the hourly labour charge? If a plumber attends as an emergency at night the hourly charge is usually a lot more